Gundam 00 Episode 18

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Originally Posted by Ryllharu

Since Billy won't be able to create a Solar Furnace, or probably even a copy of one like the Thrones have, the stolen beam saber won't do any good. We should really be amazed that the GN particles stayed in Johan's blade long enough for Graham to cut the arm off.

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That should be true if the sword's efficiency is based on the particles. However, it's no wonder it stayed active as long as it did. After all, the dragoon system (or whatever it was called) stays active for a really long time after completely detaching from the main unit. So, the sword could stay active for half an hour for all we know.

Still, the Throne keeps shooting their GN particles around so much that it should be no problem to study it's properties as much as they want. Just place the monitors and meters near some military base and the Throne will be there eventually to give all the measurement imaginable. Even if they can't replicate the solar furnace, apparently, without a really long trip to a distant planet, they might be able to think of some counter measures and such based on the results. Also, the sword itself might still reveal something about how materials react to the GN particles. After all, the Gundams seem to operate perfectly in the middle of the highest concentration whereas regular electronics have problems.

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Originally Posted by Kraco

That should be true if the sword's efficiency is based on the particles. However, it's no wonder it stayed active as long as it did. After all, the dragoon system (or whatever it was called) stays active for a really long time after completely detaching from the main unit. So, the sword could stay active for half an hour for all we know.

Still, the Throne keeps shooting their GN particles around so much that it should be no problem to study it's properties as much as they want. Just place the monitors and meters near some military base and the Throne will be there eventually to give all the measurement imaginable. ...After all, the Gundams seem to operate perfectly in the middle of the highest concentration whereas regular electronics have problems.

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Sure, maybe they can study it, but it won't do Graham a damn bit of good. That's what I meant. He's not going to be able to use it without being able to generate GN particles, which they can't without a Solar Furnace. That's why the Ptyolmaios recharges off of the Gundams, it propels itself with GN particles, but all the Furnaces are on the Gundams.

And you said it yourself. You can't study particles that inherently block most forms of electronic observation. Billy had a tiny device early on, but it taught him nothing about it. He gave what little data he could get to Professor Eifman, who used his own theoretical knowledge to infer about the nature of the particles.

So perhaps the beam saber will tell Billy more about the particles and the energies the Gundams use, but it won't do Graham any good in terms of combat capabilities.

Graham Acre - best normal mobile suit pilot ever.

total agreement with Kraco and everyone bad-mouthing the three powers. Fucking pathetic that they're just letting the Gundams tear them a new one like this... Also, although the Thrones just seem to be attacking bases at random, you think a trap involving some hydrogen bombs could be set up somewhere along the way...

That scene with Saji and Louise was awesome. Dude bought her an accessory for the one body part she lost. That's some O'Henry irony right there. Looking forward to seeing how he continues to develop. Maybe one day he'll even be as cool as his sister, who kicks more ass than CB's intelligence.

Alejandro Corner plays it well enough... but I'm still pretty sure he's evil. Wang Liu hot body Min showed an interesting perspective too, almost as if she'd be open to the Thrones' agenda... But probably just a terrible Shitsen mistranslation.

How have you people not talked about Livonze and Tieria yet? Seriously, I know you guys don't like to speculate as much as I do, but there was some major shit going on with those two in this episode. After learning that Tieria is somehow part computer, we find that part of Veda has been altered and then access blocked. Sumeragi expresses it later, but Veda being breached really messes up CB's operations. We're also introduced to the idea that there might be a traitor somewhere in CB. And, if we're to actually believe Alejandro Corner's words and that he's actually not up to no good.

Well, aside from the fact that the Veda-breached scene ends with an otherwise totally inexplicable shot of Livonze, there's also the next episode teaser...

So, let's try to weigh in here. What's up with Livonze and Tieria? Are they both somehow cyborgs that can interact with Veda? I'm thinking that Livonze is the upgraded version that doesn't have gender-switch malfunctions. They seem too human to have AI, but I imagine Livonze might have been tampered with by whoever is behind "Lagna" and the Thrones. He's certainly in a position to get ass loads of stuff from Alejandro Corner (wording chosen deliberately here), but is Corner really that dumb? I'm betting they're humans that have been so enhanced with nanomachines that they can actually control them, although they retain a human personality.

I'm finally very happy that Setsuna went off on his own like the terribly insubordinate snot he's proven himself to be.

I lol'd at Lockon's comment about "I'm no Allelujah, but I can hear the cries of the world against us"

Lastly, goddamn the Trinity triplets are fucking stupid.

the next episode looks like it could be very good, and I'm wondering if we might have turned a corner with this show.

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Originally Posted by Ryllharu

Sure, maybe they can study it, but it won't do Graham a damn bit of good. That's what I meant. He's not going to be able to use it without being able to generate GN particles, which they can't without a Solar Furnace. That's why the Ptyolmaios recharges off of the Gundams, it propels itself with GN particles, but all the Furnaces are on the Gundams.

And you said it yourself. You can't study particles that inherently block most forms of electronic observation. Billy had a tiny device early on, but it taught him nothing about it. He gave what little data he could get to Professor Eifman, who used his own theoretical knowledge to infer about the nature of the particles.

So perhaps the beam saber will tell Billy more about the particles and the energies the Gundams use, but it won't do Graham any good in terms of combat capabilities.

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If you think about it a bit, you will realise two things: If it's impossible to study, it wouldn't have been developed in the first place. And furthermore, it was developed a long time ago using inferior equipment and inferior knowledge (the initial situation). Like giving an mp3 player to some old scientist geezer from the year 1913 or giving it to somebody from 1981. Neither would really know what it is, aside from the fact it contains and plays an awesome amount of music, but the one from 1981 would be in an inifinitely better position to understand it. Unless it really is so that the world has developed nothing new since the time all those scientists began to disappear.

And from a military point of view (since you obviously know a lot about it, having the audacity to suggest I know zilch), it makes a world of difference to know more about your enemies and their capabilities, especially seemingly overpowering enemies. If by studying the sword they find a resistant material / method of shielding electronics from the GN particle effects, they could have, for example, communications still working under a GN exposure, or a shield somewhat resistant against the enemy beam weapons.

But if you are hellbent on thinking the only way to fight against the Gundams is to have a fully functional solar furnace of your own, then obviously all my words are nothing but scribbles on water to you.

/ignores Kraco's baiting.

I OBVIOUSLY pissed him off in the Eps 17 thread, and he's been going after me extensively in this thread as a result, but I'm gonna let things go.

@masa
I didn't want to say it, because it is totally lame and a cliche, and I was hoping by not mentioning it, that I might be wrong.

From the teaser in the preview, the suspicion on Alejandro switched to Livonze. Sure, Alejandro is an evil bastard well enough in his own right, but that smile just gives off the "I'm the real evil mastermind. Nobody suspected me!" sound bite followed by minutes of evil laughter.


But I know what's really going to happen....



[extensive classic-Gundam spoilers]

Louise, totally distraught from the loss of her mother and her hand, will wander off aimlessly. Livonze, confident in his soon to be victory, will kidnap Louise, and drop her into the Dark Satan Gundam hidden underneath one of the Space Elevators. The Gundams will fly up and try to hold her off. Even the Thrones will have a change of heart after being used by Livonze so badly. Then Setsuna, a little down after being whipped around by the Thrones a short time ago, will hear of Saji and Louise's plight, and trade Exia to Saji. After that, Saji will upgrade Exia. Then he'll fly up, and declare to Louise that he loves her, and can't be without her. Louise will be freed from the DARK SATAN GUNDAM and it will explode.

Happiness for all.

[end spoilers]

The way i see is that Setsuna rejected Thrones as part of CB,CB would never attack civilians or any pilots would say "it's not fair", which leaves they nothing more then a terrorist group. And it is CB duty to eradicate any armed forces that seek conflict.

@Kraco:
I'm having a hard time givin' that they will improve as much as you've stated iny our post about shieldings or any other kind of resistance, if not the Professor did somewere/somehow stash a "legacy" to support Billy with proper information/equiment.
The connection between those two feels more than it's portrayed, wich means IF this goes deeper and Billy finds more, somehow Sumeragi will be involved, even having the thoughts of silencing him. Sure, maybe way to brutal.
It would be a nice twist having Billy dead, telling on his death bed that he somehow developed a new suit for Graham. (for the next season, and yes, give our poor mediocorefuckingbestpilot something that his body can handle)

Giving that it's "mostly" a beam saber, fueled by GN Particles, they still have to figure the particles itself. They do need more than a beam saber but I am SO not seeing getting a peak at the current Gundams.

@masamuneehs:
Don't try to deny that Tiera is way sexier than war-scarred Lockon.

Overall, I'm having these annoying thoughts that the Haros SOMEHOW will get a freakin' big role in this series. Well, not enourmus but greater than other characters.
For instance, the memory loss of Evil Haro..
But it also may be just a way to potrait the Trinitys.

Damn, Haros voices just piss me off. I just wish someone could EMP those little annoying bastards.

i hate to say it, but the more i think on Livonze, the more I think Ryll might be right... honestly, it'd make the most sense if he AND Alejandro Corner were in the evil side of the pool together, because otherwise Corner is one of the biggest idiots I've seen in a while...

several things here

1 - Graham is awesome! (lots of people said it... but I have to say it again!)

2 - I'm amazed that know really thought that what Setsuna did is also awesome, the "I have decided that..." means that he basically means, he's passed judgement! He's the hammer of God. BTW, if you look at the preview the Trinitys don't seem like they are playing with him (even tho two are just watching), so he's not gonna just get owned.

3 - Someone in another thread was talking about how the powers only use one type of suit. well, in this ep, they showed a Union pilot in something called a Rialdo. also, i rewatched the ep where the thrones first appeared, and Patrick Corlasawar was the only one in an Enact. the other AEU units were Hellions. and HRL has been using quite a few variants of their suits for a while. The Enact and Flags are simply the F-22, Eurofighters of their time.

btw... I don't want Graham to get a Gundam... i love the Flags... I wish all the good guys would get Flags...

Hmm...I'd say the Louise thing was more Maupassant that O'Henry, but I might be wrong. Anyway, the Livonze-Tiera "enhanced human" theory seems pretty interesting, since we know that Tiera isn't quite normal, and the shot of Livonze during the preview was pretty ominous (also the one after they showed Tiera realizing Veda's being hacked). I think that Nena also had something to do with it.

And finally we hear the mention of Espionage being a possibility to some of the troubles that are occurring to various factions. I mean besides Wang Liu-Mei's Green Hornet friend, we haven't had too much mention of that, which I was a bit surprised at, seeing as how I would think that would be a part of the..well, let's say political dealings between factions. You should always try to get a man on the "inside" in order to see what your enemies are up to. (Now that I think about it, that may have been Ali's role. Maybe he was more than a simple mercenary...think about it).

And yes, of course Graham is full of win, but where was Daryl at when he flew off?? Also, I don't think the arm exploded, and to boot, its in the Union territory, so if they can retrieve it, it should tell them something about Gundam tech, even though we found out the thrones use 'incomplete' solar furnace units.

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Originally Posted by Darknodin

3 - Someone in another thread was talking about how the powers only use one type of suit. well, in this ep, they showed a Union pilot in something called a Rialdo. also, i rewatched the ep where the thrones first appeared, and Patrick Corlasawar was the only one in an Enact. the other AEU units were Hellions. and HRL has been using quite a few variants of their suits for a while. The Enact and Flags are simply the F-22, Eurofighters of their time.

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The other suits were probably old models. The Flags and Enacts were the latest suits and might not have been out in high enough numbers yet to equip all of the air forces with them. Graham actually said in this ep he was the main test pilot for Flags, and affected that the Union chose it as their main mobile suit. So, we can also assume it had competition from other contractors, although it's likely those other latest generation suits only exist as a few prototype units the air forces could test. The same goes for the AEU as well, probably. Although considering it's Europe it would also be possible the competitors could have higher numbers out (produced by its individual country of origin).

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Originally Posted by rockmanj

Also, I don't think the arm exploded, and to boot, its in the AEU (is that correct?) territory, so if they can retrieve it, it should tell them something about Gundam tech, even though we found out the thrones use 'incomplete' solar furnace units.

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Surely it was in the Union territory. Wasn't it a Union weapons factory, and moreover Graham was there in mere moments, indicating it was very close to his home base. But it was an awfully big explosion down there. And it didn't look just like a cloud of dust like you would expect if it just simply hit the ground.

I believe they mentioned the factory was in Iowa did they not? In case you non-American's don't know Iowa is smack dab in the middle of the United States.

I just got the different factions names a bit mixed up. Of course I knew it was in
America (I'm from Chicago...duh), but I had momentarily forgotten what it was called in 00 (the World Economic Union as opposed to the Advanced European Union).

granted it is sad as to what happened to Louise, but i see her purpose in Gundam more to show the effect of War or conflict on civilians. it shows that even if you are a non-com, no one is safe from the battlefield, and civilians usually are the ones who suffer from someone else's choices. they have been involved in at least maybe wat, 2 or 3 incidents? first with the orbital block, the bus-bombing, and now for louise a random act of violence.

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Originally Posted by Wren

granted it is sad as to what happened to Louise, but i see her purpose in Gundam more to show the effect of War or conflict on civilians.

they have been involved in at least maybe wat, 2 or 3 incidents?

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yeah, actually, it's sorta crazy how many times they've gotten caught up in stuff. More likely that Saji would get hit by a car on his pizza route than all of this... but you had to see something bad happening with Louise's rich family eventually...

I also thought that the Thrones were fighting mostly older models, including that one informer who was silenced just after meeting with the reporter. I'd imagine that with the Thrones attacking almost at random, they've been unable to coordinate any kind of retaliation for the debacle in the desert. Honestly though, with how eager the Thrones are to attack high profile military targets, putting some "false intel" out about, let's say, a new Enact variation that is being developed at Ambush Factory South, and, you know, getting some more of those immobilizers, a few beam saber wielding kamikazes, and well, that's what I'd do... They don't always send all of the Thrones together, so you could at least take down one, hopefully.

i laughed a lot during the ring scene.... so many jokes came into my mind...

"mommy can i have a cookie?!" " sure, get one from the shelf." "but mommy, i don't have any arms" "well,no arm - no cookie"

too bad... actually she was the hottest chick in gundam 00 :(

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Originally Posted by KrayZ33

i laughed a lot during the ring scene.... so many jokes came into my mind...

"mommy can i have a cookie?!" " sure, get one from the shelf." "but mommy, i don't have any arms" "well,no arm - no cookie"

too bad... actually she was the hottest chick in gundam 00 :(

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i found it interesting that their prosthetic technology seems to be lower than ours... especially considering they have tremendously agile robots with articulater arms and hands. Louise should be getting a Flag arm!

Well, the incident just happened, so it would be a while before she would be fitted with a prosthesis. Remember, she's probably still in shock from the event, and is probably nowhere close to coming to terms with what has happened to her.

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Originally Posted by Darknodin

i found it interesting that their prosthetic technology seems to be lower than ours... especially considering they have tremendously agile robots with articulater arms and hands. Louise should be getting a Flag arm!

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I dont think they can apply prosthetics that early anyway seeing as she was just recovering from the attack.