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I don't think I would ever guess Archer's identity in a million years. The thing he recites during Unlimited Blade Works only makes sense if you actually know he's Shirou. I think the main problem is that he's from the future and that's a bit unconventional.
It's really not as bad as you think it is. All the best clues are in eps 14, and they are obvious even without knowing who he was because they make them obvious. They still aren't going to hand the answer to you, but with a little thinking, you can figure it out.
Archer spoke to Ilya as if he knew her. Most importantly, all his references to her were referring to the past. "You haven't changed...".
-This should tip you off that Archer has intimate knowledge of the people currently in the war, since Ilya was unknown to everyone but Rin (and her only through reputation). Past tense it what's really weird, since Ilya is quite young. That's odd enough, but once you know who he is you understand why.
Archer creates his weapons and blades.
-Obvious, and should be unbelievably apparent once Shirou starts creating the same ones.
Most importantly, pay attention to the manner in which Archer speaks to Shiro in episode 14. "You're nothing more than one who creates" This means he's got a very good knowledge of Shirou's ability. At that point, only Rin knew about it, not even Saber. "There's only one thing you can do. Master that one thing! Never forget this. The thing you image is always your strongest form." This tells us one thing. Not only does Archer know about Shirou's ability, he has knowledge of how it works. No one else knows this in the series until much later. The only logical conclusion from there with the other info is that Archer is Shirou. It makes no sense otherwise.
It's really not that bad if you look at all the evidence, whether or not you knew beforehand.
That's actually the part that put me on the wrong track. For the longest time I thought Archer was from the past and that Ilya was a reincarnation of someone Archer once knew very well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryllharu
To our knowledge, the Servants may have fought in previous Wars, so that Archer knew Ilya from before doesn't prove anything. Ilya was always a mysterious character, so how Archer knew her could've been explained by several different theories.
Without knowledge of Archer being Shirou, Archer using a variety of weapons doesn't mean that he's creating them. At the time, it seemed like it was simply part of Archer's noble phantasm, him being able to access some shit that stored all his weapon's and he merely had the capability to summon them. And that Shirou uses the same weapon doesn't mean shit. Shirou had been copying weapons he had seen before, like him creating Sabers weapon. He doing so doesn't mean that Saber is Shirou. Mere coincidence.
And going back to Servants having the capability of fighting in different Wars might've explained why Archer has so much knowledge on Shirou's ability. He could've participated in a previous War where there was a Master that used the same type of ability that Shirou is using.
So, to respond to your post, no it's not obvious. Looking back it might seem that way because you know the truth, but without previous knowledge of him being Shirou, there's is no real "obvious" way to say that Archer was Shirou.
I always thought Shirou copied Archer's weapons because he thought they were powerful, not because he is Archer. He only started imaging those two swords after watching Archer fight using them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Budweineken
If he had created those two blades by himself before Archer fought Berserker, then that would be considered obvious.
See that's what i figured too... That he has seen Archer's swords that's why he could image them...Quote:
Originally Posted by BOARD_of_command
As for the advice that Archer keeps giving Shirou... I figured as well that Archer is just familiar with Shirou's magic and he felt he should help him even though he doesn't want to, but because Rin wanted to.
And again... I'm not convinced Archer is Shirou from just watching the anime... There is no proof... These minor hints here and there aren't enough.
Maybe I'm just slow? But I don't know... It's not very convincing... I guess I'll have to play the game...
If you guys look at ep 15, the bow that Shirou images is the same bow that Archer used when he said my favorite quote from the show*I am the bone of my sword*. But yea I wouldn't have figured it out without the hints that Archer identity was given and I picked up on the necklace after rewatching the show earlier in the series.
I checked, it's not.
The one that Archer images looks like a bigger version of the one that Shirou images.
The handle is also different if you observe carefuly.
I do agree that Archer = Shirou though, because there would be no point at all to hide archer's real name.
oh great, now that i know archer is shirou im gonna have to rewatch all the episodes to pick up on any subtle clue...
in eps 14 archer called ilyasviel "ilya", which surprised her. thats probably a subtle clue.
archer knew that hercules had multiple lives even though, i think, no one told him about his hougu.
i realized that both shirou and archer have the same eyebrows.
i think the biggest reason why people couldnt match archer with shirou is the fact that they have different hair colors. even their eyebrows are different colors, which could mean one of two things. either his hair color changed by magic, or, in the future, shirou dyes both his hair and eyebrows, which would be weird.
im also surprised that archer didnt try to get it on with saber. shirou finally gets a second chance to see her but he doesnt do anything....
I am the bone of my sword.
Steel is my body, and fire is my blood.
I have created over a thousand blades.
Unknown to death nor known to life.
My power can break a mountain, and my sword can part a river.
Have withstood pain to create many weapons.
Yet those hands will never hold anything.
So as I pray, Unlimited Bladeworks.
i wonder, do those phrases have any special meaning?
I think that... Archer doesn't have the personality of Shirou. You know the "help anyone he sees". It's a pretty important trait of Shirou.
Yes, it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by jing
However, I believe Archer is from the future in which Shirou had his "help anyone he sees" trait tested to the utmost, and wound up defeated. For that reason, he develops this different outlook that he has in his present incarnation.
bagandscalpel
you should read the different scenarios of Fate (the games)... you are guessing correctly.
Hey guys I'm new here but I was wondering is there more to Fate/Stay Night because I don't want it to end at episodes 24 and Saber dieng...T_T
I'm pretty sure there won't be any follow-up stuff.
Most likely they won't. But I'm still hoping that they do the other two scenarios.
Huu...Final ep from AonE is out!
/me looks at all the "Die" signs...
Damn, just finished this series and i gotta say, it was awesome. I didn't realize who archer was while watching the series. I guess it does make a lot of sense now that I've read most of the comments here and the whole wikipedia article on him. As for it being obvious, a lot of it could have been attributed to coincidence ...###
scratch that i just looked back at how he got his weapons and it should have been apparent (at least a few episodes later that is). He uses the EXACT same method that shiro uses and we know that Servants, nor anyone else we know of, are not supposed to be able to do that. Furthermore, he uses a Reality Marble something which it said only magicians were able to do (none of the Servants were magicians except Caster). His comment to Ilya shows that he has had prior knowledge of her character.
As for archers personality check out the wikipedia article - it explains it completely.
I'd have to say that this had the best ending out of all the anime's that i can recall. Normally there would have been a way for Shiro and Saber to be together which would have been extremely corny. I especially liked how they showed his thoughts at the end where he wanted to be with her but knew that it was ultimately the wrong thing to do. I guess it shows him getting over the selfish quality of his that prevailed throughout the anime of wanting to be with Saber no matter what. This is also evident in the way (his explanation) of how he will deal with her loss. The ending's lyrics make sense when compared to the overall feel of the anime and the mood created by the last few minutes, however, i do not think that the music should have been so cheery. It kinda downplayed and contradicted everything that had happened in that last episode.
I also think that knowing Shiro's future (from wikipedia) made it all the better. Knowing that he would finally realize that his ideal wasn't all the he thought it was (not that I'm being sadistic, but it was an ideal that could only realistically lead to that painful discovery) makes it more realistic and therefore better, even if it is only in my eyes.
Sorry for bringing up a dead thread, but I just finished this series so I thought I would make a comment =]. I hope this doesn't cause problems.
Ahh I wish I knew archer was shiro in the beginning of the series. Now I am smacking myself in the head saying "Why didn't I notice that!"
Anyways, this was a fantastic series, and I wish they made it longer or had some sequals. I never played the games, but read I wikipedia on how there are different endings and how archer has his own storyline. I think it would be really cool if they made a sequal of how shiro develops into archer, and maybe have the end of the that series be the same as the beginning of the first series, with archer appearing as Rin's servant.
The ending really displays the highest of human selflessness. If I loved someone that much I would definately try a lot harder to convince them to say. I may have even used a command spell to make her stay...
I am also wondering, why is the show called Fate/Stay Night?
Other than that, fantastic anime, fanstastic sound track (downloading the OST right now). =]