Printable View
i read some mega marvel volumes with some gang of super heroes fighting a big witch or something. and the spiderman tv series had that theme a number of times. the rest of what i read wasnt all that interesting to me they were focusing to much on the super hero and his fighting to save the world, becmae boring pretty quick.
wasn't Silver Surfers arch enemy a planet or at least planet sized being that liked to eat other planets and then move on to the next planet
sounds like stoping him is saving the universe.....but whatever
you know, one thing i never understood about the Marvel universe was all the anti-mutant sentiment i mean, they are ok with people having all maner of super powers as long as they are from radiation accidents/a vitimin supliment/etc, but not if it's genetic?
but then i think the marvel character that baffles me the most is the Hulks nemmisis The Leader:
Lets see Hero: Big green dumb strong guy Villion Small green smart guy
not very creative and the moral ends up being "clever planning and logic can never win against the sheer physical brutality of a guy who barely even knows where he is" this is not the moral your average comic book reader wants to read
psj, you don't sound like you know much or something. gotta be more specific.Quote:
Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya
i read some mega marvel volumes with some gang of super heroes fighting a big witch or something. and the spiderman tv series had that theme a number of times. the rest of what i read wasnt all that interesting to me they were focusing to much on the super hero and his fighting to save the world, becmae boring pretty quick.
i dont know much either never claimed i did. the mega marvel story was some group with cpatian america and a girl who could become small and shit and aobut 50 others. scarlett witch was in it to and a guy named wonder man who was supposed to be dead, they fought a evil celtic witch or something who wanted to destroy the earth or rule it or something i think, i read it like 7 years ago.... i also read about an x men story in mega marvel where they saved the universe or something i dont remember to clearly. as for the spiderman tv series it was the one with madam web and all the parellel universe with carnage spiderman wanting to blow everything up.... if that isnt specific enough im sorry i dont know much more than that really. as you probably get my experience with american comics is quite limited.....
so i can agree to that it was stupid of me to start discussing aobut this stuff with my limited knowledge but oh well done is done. another thing i dont like about american comics is how they change artists and how american comics really have no end. i want a begining and an end of a story.
American comics are so fricking convoluted. There are to many alternate universes/dimensions. To many cross overs and teams ups. The time-lines and universes all intersect and bisect and contridict one another. None of it ever makes sense to me. Thats why I never got into american comics.
Teen Titans suck. I've never read the real comics but judging from the artwork they don't look that tough. Robin is their leader right? He isn't even a real fricking super hero. He has no powers. Just his wits and a utility belt. I've seen the animated teen titans and they suck even more. I hate it when american animation series try to imitate anime. Plus the Teen Titans seems to consist of C- super heros who combat D+ villians. Has anyone ever seen the show? They spend a whole episode chasing down a magician. A MAGICIAN for christ sake. Naruto wins hands down.
Man this is dumb thread. I wonder who would win? Naruto vs. Captain Nemo. Naruto vs. the Hulk. Naruto vs. Battle Star Galactica. Naruto and team 7 vs. the Fantastic Four. Or how about the entire Leaf village vs. The Covenent from halo or the Combine from Half-Life2.
This is a little off-topic, but I wanted to add to this.
I got given this book as a joke gift for Christmas: 'Star Trek and X-Men on Planet X'.Quote:
Originally posted by: LobsterMagnet
American comics are so fricking convoluted. There are to many alternate universes/dimensions. To many cross overs and teams ups. The time-lines and universes all intersect and bisect and contridict one another. None of it ever makes sense to me. Thats why I never got into american comics.
Probably one of the weirdest most convoluted crossovers ever. Granted, it was a novel and not a comic, but it was still wretchedly awful. I tried reading it out of curiosity, but couldn't get past the first few pages. Some things should not be combined. Ever.
any mega cross over is just a way to get your money.. . avoid it at all costQuote:
Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya
i read some mega marvel volumes with some gang of super heroes fighting a big witch or something. and the spiderman tv series had that theme a number of times. the rest of what i read wasnt all that interesting to me they were focusing to much on the super hero and his fighting to save the world, becmae boring pretty quick.
seems like you missed the entire theme of spider-man. it can be summed up in six words "with great power coems great responsibilty. most comics have reocurriing themes. the x-men is a critique on racism, the fantastic four is a family, the hulk deals with a severe bi-polar disorder. give these books a little more of a chance and you will see that they are much deeper then you expected.
humans hate mutants because they are born different, and their very existance means that homo sapiens are on the verge of extenction.Quote:
Originally posted by: Thunder_Pants
wasn't Silver Surfers arch enemy a planet or at least planet sized being that liked to eat other planets and then move on to the next planet
sounds like stoping him is saving the universe.....but whatever
you know, one thing i never understood about the Marvel universe was all the anti-mutant sentiment i mean, they are ok with people having all maner of super powers as long as they are from radiation accidents/a vitimin supliment/etc, but not if it's genetic?
but then i think the marvel character that baffles me the most is the Hulks nemmisis The Leader:
Lets see Hero: Big green dumb strong guy Villion Small green smart guy
not very creative and the moral ends up being "clever planning and logic can never win against the sheer physical brutality of a guy who barely even knows where he is" this is not the moral your average comic book reader wants to read
and the hulks real nemesis is himself... i think any story that doesnt have to deal with that conflict is a bad hulk story
the concept of alternate dimensions is not a very difficult one one to understand, and only really pertains to books in the marvel universe now since DC wiped out that idea years ago, thats what the whole crisis thing was all about. marvel currently has the exiles which actually kind of makes light of the whole alternate reality issue, but sine alternate dimensions are so intertwined with the fantastic four, and alternate realiteis have allowed marve lto do such things as the ultimate series, age of apocolypse, and days of future past (where are all really good) marvel will never ditch the concept.Quote:
Originally posted by: LobsterMagnet
American comics are so fricking convoluted. There are to many alternate universes/dimensions. To many cross overs and teams ups. The time-lines and universes all intersect and bisect and contridict one another. None of it ever makes sense to me. Thats why I never got into american comics.
Teen Titans suck. I've never read the real comics but judging from the artwork they don't look that tough. Robin is their leader right? He isn't even a real fricking super hero. He has no powers. Just his wits and a utility belt. I've seen the animated teen titans and they suck even more. I hate it when american animation series try to imitate anime. Plus the Teen Titans seems to consist of C- super heros who combat D+ villians. Has anyone ever seen the show? They spend a whole episode chasing down a magician. A MAGICIAN for christ sake. Naruto wins hands down.
Man this is dumb thread. I wonder who would win? Naruto vs. Captain Nemo. Naruto vs. the Hulk. Naruto vs. Battle Star Galactica. Naruto and team 7 vs. the Fantastic Four. Or how about the entire Leaf village vs. The Covenent from halo or the Combine from Half-Life2.
yeah, that IS forming an opinion. you used it as an example to form your opinion about comics.Quote:
i didnt exactly form an opinion just from that one episode i saw, i just took it as an example.
That is because you don't read a whole hell of a lot of comics. I can name some mainstream anime that just end up with "save the world", does that mean that all anime tends towards this trend? No. In addition, the fact that several comics tend towards an "epic" feel doesn't mean that an epic storyline about large-scale heroism is overdone, or that it is a bad idea.Quote:
i've read my share of american comics and in most of them i came across the same concept, saving the universe.
Understandable, but if you can't get a hold of decent non-mainstream comics, why would you go ahead and form an opinion about all American comics? If you need some good titles, I can recommend you some to download.Quote:
i havent read much more than some marvel comics its not really that easy to get a hold of all the other comics here in sweden....
Yes I can. If you don't know enough about a subject to form a reasonably informed opinion, you just don't talk about it.Quote:
if i've just come across a small portion of comics that got this save the world theme you cant really blame me from forming an opinion from that,
why, when I can do both?Quote:
why dont you prove me wrong instead of calling me retard, moron and shit like that.
the thing here is that you are wrong. most Marvel universe citizens assume ALL superpowered beings are either hostile nonhumans, or mutants. Spiderman is widely hated because it is assumed he is a mutant vigilante. Pretty much the only "popular" superheros in the MU are ones like the Avengers, who are either not superhuman like Captain America or get their powers from technology like Hank Pym and Ironman. Plus, bigots in the MU being hypocrites is used as a social commentary a lot of the time.Quote:
you know, one thing i never understood about the Marvel universe was all the anti-mutant sentiment i mean, they are ok with people having all maner of super powers as long as they are from radiation accidents/a vitimin supliment/etc, but not if it's genetic?
The "moral" in Hulk is generally "things get blown up real good". But if you want to read into it, the statement here is that the animalistic nature of man is just as fearsome and terrible as the vast intellectual power he weilds. Sure it's a bit negative, but I'll take a darkly written book over such trite shit as "the power of friendship lets us win!", which is found in just about every shounen comic ever written.Quote:
not very creative and the moral ends up being "clever planning and logic can never win against the sheer physical brutality of a guy who barely even knows where he is" this is not the moral your average comic book reader wants to read
that is a weak viewpoint. You have probably memorized the names, family relationships and powers of dozens of Naruto characters, and that is just for 1 title. You're telling me that remembering that Kid Flash is from the future and that Starfire is an alien is just too hard for you?Quote:
LobsterMagnet:
American comics are so fricking convoluted. There are to many alternate universes/dimensions. To many cross overs and teams ups. The time-lines and universes all intersect and bisect and contridict one another. None of it ever makes sense to me. Thats why I never got into american comics.
and that is where your opinion stops matteringQuote:
Teen Titans suck. I've never read the real comics
some cross overs are good. and im sure its somthing anime and manga writers/producers would do if one studio owned the rights to 2 or more hugley succesfull franchises based in a similar time persiod or setting.
we get it Y you know your stuff but dont be an ass about it.
transmetropolitan is a very strange, taboo, and pessimistic series.....
certainly something ive yet to find in anime
It has been done, Shounen Jump put out a DBZ/One Piece crossover a while back.Quote:
Originally posted by: chambers
some cross overs are good. and im sure its somthing anime and manga writers/producers would do if one studio owned the rights to 2 or more hugley succesfull franchises based in a similar time persiod or setting.
That is the problem with judging American comics only by "cape books", so to speak - you miss out on all the non mainstream work like Sin City, Sandman, Transmetropolitan, Alan Moore's works, stuff that totally trounces most mainstream cape books.Quote:
Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
transmetropolitan is a very strange, taboo, and pessimistic series.....
certainly something ive yet to find in anime
American comics are fricking ridiculous. RasenDori's statement says it all "ultimate series, age of apocolypse, and days of future past." How the hell can you justify three versions of the same crap? The original source material may not be crap but when it's remade, redone, remixed, and repackaged the original material tends to lose it's shine. I'm sick a future versions and past versions and remakes of the same stuff.
Why does there need to be an ultimate series just to tell the same stories again with new character designs.
Why does there need to be a age of apocolypse where all the super heros fight against some evil super being or the alien and predator.
What the hell are the days of futures past? What about the tomorrow that never comes? Or the day after yesterday before saturday on the noon of Wolverines second cousin's birthday.
Then you have the team ups and time travel. Just take a look at the several batman series. Poor old batman has been reinvented and reinvented again and again. Many of these revisions and remakes have dumbed down the core character. For evidence look no further then the most recent Batman cartoon complete with a Rastifarian Joker and a Man Bat.
Attention: since you actually haven't read any of the above comics, your opinion is as irrelevant as possible. Have a nice day.Quote:
Originally posted by: LobsterMagnet
American comics are fricking ridiculous. RasenDori's statement says it all "ultimate series, age of apocolypse, and days of future past." How the hell can you justify three versions of the same crap? The original source material may not be crap but when it's remade, redone, remixed, and repackaged the original material tends to lose it's shine. I'm sick a future versions and past versions and remakes of the same stuff.
Why does there need to be an ultimate series just to tell the same stories again with new character designs.
Why does there need to be a age of apocolypse where all the super heros fight against some evil super being or the alien and predator.
What the hell are the days of futures past? What about the tomorrow that never comes? Or the day after yesterday before saturday on the noon of Wolverines second cousin's birthday.
EDIT:
In case you didn't get the hint (this is the 2nd time I've had to say this), since you don't actually know the first goddamn thing about American comics, you probably don't need to talk about them.
the ultimate line isnt just the same story told over again with new designs. it takes existing characters and provides a new personality and character relations *points in the direction of gwen stacy*. marvel basically admitted that it was bogged down wtih 40+ years of continuity, the ultimate series is new reader friendly, but its also something completely different so that the older fans can enjoy them too. not only that, but the ultimate line has a great sense of interconectivity something that happens in one book effects them all and you can that the ultimate series has its own deeper plot going on within all of the books.Quote:
Originally posted by: LobsterMagnet
American comics are fricking ridiculous. RasenDori's statement says it all "ultimate series, age of apocolypse, and days of future past." How the hell can you justify three versions of the same crap? The original source material may not be crap but when it's remade, redone, remixed, and repackaged the original material tends to lose it's shine. I'm sick a future versions and past versions and remakes of the same stuff.
Why does there need to be an ultimate series just to tell the same stories again with new character designs.
Why does there need to be a age of apocolypse where all the super heros fight against some evil super being or the alien and predator.
What the hell are the days of futures past? What about the tomorrow that never comes? Or the day after yesterday before saturday on the noon of Wolverines second cousin's birthday.
Then you have the team ups and time travel. Just take a look at the several batman series. Poor old batman has been reinvented and reinvented again and again. Many of these revisions and remakes have dumbed down the core character. For evidence look no further then the most recent Batman cartoon complete with a Rastifarian Joker and a Man Bat.
age of apocolypes was the perfect what would the world be like it apocolypes had his way. you see the major differneces in each of the characters in a world without xavier. total chaos. and the character interaction was just great.
lobster magnet, dont judge a book buy its cover, try reading it. if someone told me about a story with some idiot ninja clad in orange running around talking about he wants to be something called hokage with silly skills like harem no jutsu, i would have laughed at him and dismissed the idea as total crap. but as you all know that is not the case. everyone needs stop making stupid broad generalizations. it only makes you look ignorant. if you hate the superhero stories fine, try reading preacher, or v for vendetta. if i judged manga based upon those crappy sexual angst comedies like love hina... i probally would have found naruto, gantz, one piece and all the other stories i treasure. this arguement can go on and on, however it seems that the only ones here educated enough to have a real arguement about american comics versus manga would be me, Y, and terracosmo. everone else here seems to be too fixated on saying things like "alternate realities suck" "superheroes are crap" "saving the world... blah blah blah" go read something outside the mainsteam, hell you can even read something in the main stream and if you look closely enough (and by looking closely enough i mean stop your petty search for extreme power-ups, ki/chakra/life spirt/energy blast, and blue hair, and try to actually see the deepth behind the damn book)
Fuckin' superslam by rasendori.Quote:
Originally posted by: RasenDori
this arguement can go on and on, however it seems that the only ones here educated enough to have a real arguement about american comics versus manga would be me, Y, and terracosmo. everone else here seems to be too fixated on saying things like "alternate realities suck" "superheroes are crap" "saving the world... blah blah blah" go read something outside the mainsteam, hell you can even read something in the main stream and if you look closely enough (and by looking closely enough i mean stop your petty search for extreme power-ups, ki/chakra/life spirt/energy blast, and blue hair, and try to actually see the deepth behind the damn book)
lobstermagnet: simple....because the remakes are meant to target a generation that wasnt around to experience the originals.
xmen evolution isnt meant to target the same audience that grew up to the original xmen comics
just like how the new ninja turtles series isnt meant to target fans of the original series
If marvel needs to create an entire new lineup of comic series just to sort out all of the convoluted storylines essentially proves my point. Through various forms of media I am vaguely familiar with most of the major super heros and the dynamics that make them appealing. I just don't think that they've been handled very well. Even the best property can die a quick death in incompetant hands. Does anyone here remember what happened to Family Guy and Futurama when they originally aired on fox? Because of the mismangement the overall appeal of comics has diminished. American Comics tend to be very unfriendly to outsiders and in some cases they can be down right intimidating.
Remember when Superman died. It was tragic, every five year old across the nation dried their tears as the man of steel was laid to rest. Killing off superman may have been drastic but it created a sense of closure. No superman couldn't have just died off peacefully. There had to be more money to be squezed from his corpse there just had to be more money. Then there was the rebirth of superman where there was a superboy, a robot superman, and a cyborg superman. This followed with a confusing rebirth of Superman when Superman should have just been left alone.
What I like about animes and mangas is that they generally follow a linear story progression. There is a beginning and an end. The end my come after thirteen episodes or the end may come after 300 episodes but then end is still there. The American comics seem just to twist around and interwine like some sort of demonic pretzel with no end. If a character dies they can just be brought back through some sort of loophole like an alternate dimensional eclipse. Yes I know you can say the same for anime and manga by bringing up the dragon balls, but the dragon balls remained a constant. In American comics there always seems to be some sort of thing that pulled out of the creators ass to bring back deceased characters.
To further illistrate my point I will create my own parrallel universe in which Naruto was managed by Marvel. First we would have the core naruto series. That's not enough though. We can't post a profit for the final quarter with only one series. There needs to be spin offs involving other characters. So in addition to naruto we also have a side series focusing on Sakura and Ino as they team up to keep the highways of the naruto world safe from villinous bandits and marauders. There's also another spin off following shino where we learn that he's actually an alien from another dimension sent to moniter the naruto world but for what reason? All of the answers are revealed in Naruto xl as we see a younger naruto and watch his trials and tribulations in the ninja academy.
But wait!! Thats not enough. We also need to have Naruto Apocolypse, where all of the what if senarios are explored. What if Orchimaru defeated the Third Hokage and destroyed the Leaf village. What if Tsunande was killed before she could become Hokage. What if Naruto had lost his fight against Neji? From these series will come several alternate universe spin offs where we follow the naruto villains to see what they do after defeating the main characters mentioned before in the what if senarios. Thats not all we also need to have several animated and life action spin offs that throw out all the conventions that have been established before. And then when no one knows what the hell is going on comes the release of Naruto DXLX. A retelling of the classic naruto tale but with new costumes, character interactions. Now Suske loves Sakura but she loves naruto. Oh the drama, oh the suspense, oh the money that is being reaped from the legal prostituition of a beloved intellectual property.
How would you know? 3rd time: you are babbling about material you have no experience with. none of your opinions are meaningful because you have not read any of the storylines on which you are commenting.Quote:
Originally posted by: LobsterMagnet
If marvel needs to create an entire new lineup of comic series just to sort out all of the convoluted storylines essentially proves my point. Through various forms of media I am vaguely familiar with most of the major super heros and the dynamics that make them appealing. I just don't think that they've been handled very well.
I believe the anti-mutant sentiments in X-men were created to reflect the racist views that existed in society at the time that the X-men comics were made.Quote:
you know, one thing i never understood about the Marvel universe was all the anti-mutant sentiment i mean, they are ok with people having all maner of super powers as long as they are from radiation accidents/a vitimin supliment/etc, but not if it's genetic?