Bombs in London

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Originally posted by: Assassin
unless anyone here actually buys the whole "they hate freedom" argument put forward by the government, its pretty easy to see that tehse individuals are quite pissed about something. the only way to end this cycle is to figure out why they want to blow shit up in the first place, and then work on solving that.

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I agree that this is probably the only way to have a peaceful solution, however it is nonsense to put it forward as an actual idea for resolution.

If you expect that we will change the way we live our lives to suit some people in another country BECAUSE they bombed us, you are sorely mistaken. There is no way this will follow through logically.

no one said anyhting about changing the way u live ur life. ur working under teh assumption that they hate teh american way of life, which is the just retarded.

ask anyone who's knows anyhitng about mideast affairs; its not the american way of life thats the problem, its western foriegn policy.

as far as 'our' way of life goes, the ppl in the mideast life a way more luxurious life then u can imagine. its not just a bunch of barbarians living in caves like most ppl seem to think

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Obviously it would have to be because of their beliefs. Yeah they do have a twisted way of interpreting the Koran, but still they are religiously motivated. The master mind of 9/11 had the Koran and a hijacker's manual in his bag which had all of his beliefs written on there and their god.

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so if i put bibble in my bag and go blow up an embasy, does that mean that my motivation is due to some christian beliefs? are u going to blame jesus for it, and say that 'our lord and saviour' preaced terrorism?

like i keep saying, religion has nothign to do with it. dont use the fact that the guy had a quran in his bag as proof of his motivation. its thinking like that which leads to further conflict.

Assassin.....you say im wrong, but then you also say "for reasons i dont feel like going into"
you might as well not even argue if you arent going to bother convincing me why my point is wrong.
If you have a better reason for why terrorists started the whole ordeal, i'd like to hear it.

As for everyone else (including that long post from DB_Hunter that i'm not going to even START to read).......I'm done.
I've said what i had to say and those who don't agree just ramble the same unjustified nonsense as before.

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Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
I've said what i had to say and those who don't agree just ramble the same unjustified nonsense as before.

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precisely y i dont explain all the otehr reasons...i've said what i wanted to say, and theres no point in me trying to repeat the same arguments over and over again since there isn't a real point to it.

for those who are intrested, u can do ur own research on the topics of the israel/palestine conflict, the causes of teh first and second gulf wars, the 10 year econimic sanctions on iraq (theres a wonderful book called 'Iraq Under Seige'), and western foriegn policy in general.

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Originally posted by: Assassin
ask anyone who's knows anyhitng about mideast affairs; its not the american way of life thats the problem, its western foriegn policy.

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So Al Queda is out to change our foreign policy by bombing us? It seems to have worked, there is a change. Bombing us is not going to convince us to change the way we do things in the way they seem to want it.

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so if i put bibble in my bag and go blow up an embasy, does that mean that my motivation is due to some christian beliefs? are u going to blame jesus for it, and say that 'our lord and saviour' preaced terrorism?

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No, but if you believed with all that you are that Jesus did tell you to blow up a building then how are we going to convince you that he didn't? You wouldn't believe us no matter what we do, and that is why religion is a part of this, even if it is an extremist of the religion they will not back down if we tell them they are wrong. There are few things that can motivate someone to willingly give their lives up (I'm not talking going somewhere you have a chance to die but going where you know you will die) and religion is one of them, though at that point it is usually twisted.

You need to calm down about the religion thing, we arent saying that people are evil by default because of their religion or that everyone of their religion will do this. It is the extremes we are talking about.

assassin, telling me to go do research isn't going to change my stand on the matter

I still believe that the guys who hijacked our planes and crashed them into buildings believed that they were going to a better place after death because of it.
You can't put personal experience into the argument unless you actually know any terrorists or are one yourself.

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Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
...are one yourself.

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hahaha... Assassin...

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Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
As for everyone else (including that long post from DB_Hunter that i'm not going to even START to read).......I'm done.
I've said what i had to say and those who don't agree just ramble the same unjustified nonsense as before.

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I'm sorry you feel that way.

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Originally posted by: Mut@chi
hahaha... Assassin...

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You know that actually was a good link.. though for the record I better say I mean the joke part of the post, not the argument part.

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Originally posted by: Assassin
so if i put bibble in my bag and go blow up an embasy, does that mean that my motivation is due to some christian beliefs? are u going to blame jesus for it, and say that 'our lord and saviour' preaced terrorism?

like i keep saying, religion has nothign to do with it. dont use the fact that the guy had a quran in his bag as proof of his motivation. its thinking like that which leads to further conflict.

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I'm not saying just because he had a koran in his bag, it's because of what he wrote in the hijacker's manual about his religious beliefs and what he is planning on doing.

And yes there are people like that, who use the Bible as an excuse to commit murder. There were a few cases a month or two ago. They have a twisted interpretation of the Bible, just like the morons who took part in the 9/11 attacks who had a twisted interpretation of the koran.

What I referred to was the global picture and using war as a mean to create peace. Not territorial conquest, which also tends to be something temporary mind you. And yes, I am probably an idealist more than I am a realist as I hope human stupidity and ignorance is something that can be cured someday by proper education. If that makes me a complete imbecile oblivious to everything human nature stands for and is, then so be it.

I should however have been much clearer in my previous post, and I apoligize that I wasn't. I blame lack of sleep.

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Originally posted by: Mut@chi
Educate an entire culture to do almost everything nearly opposite? Why don't we just kill off the whole culture/race if we're going to turn them into us? It's way more efficient, cost effective, and quicker.

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So now you're blaming their culture? Do you really think these peoples deepest desire is to blow themselves up for fun? You don't think they are doing this because of.. uh, a reason which is so important they are willing to die for it? That reason being that they see the Western world as tyrannical? Something which is merely enforced when you rape their soil and kill their people.

What some of you need to realize that the problem isn't only the Middle East. No matter how much your leaders preach and tries to assure you that you're the good guys, it cannot be denied that the Western world has started a lot of bad shit in the Middle East. Hell, Osama and his crew even used to be CIA lapdogs. And who provided Saddam with weapons in the first place?

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Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
I've said what i had to say and those who don't agree just ramble the same unjustified nonsense as before.

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And you wonder why he called you narrow-minded earlier? To brand everything that doesn't agree with your own view "unjustified nonsense" isn't what I'd call open-minded exactly.

Anyway, I should have known better than get involved in yet another war debate. I'm done.

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Originally psychobabbled by: Nai
What some of you need to realize that the problem isn't only the Middle East. No matter how much your leaders preach and tries to assure you that you're the good guys, it cannot be denied that the Western world has started a lot of bad shit in the Middle East. Hell, Osama and his crew even used to be CIA lapdogs. And who provided Saddam with weapons in the first place?

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Who said I was blaming culture? I'm talking about how impractical and improbable it is to use education to fight terrorism. You just misunderstood my post.

@jessper: ya bombing the shit outta buildings isn't going to bring about any change. i never said it would. im simply saying that thier reasons aren't entirely religious, thats all.

@assertn: im not trying to change ur stand. i was just stating my own stand. and that comment wasnt directed at u, it was for anyone reading. im not gonna waset time explaining everything i mentioned to somone on an internet forum. i just mentioned those topics so if anyone was intrested, they would have somethign to start.

@mut: ur house is next u damn korean!

@xollense: the mere fact that he was on board a plane that he intended to fly into a building shoud be enuff to nulify any thing he wrote in his little journal regarding his beliefs. the guy had mental problems, so anyhitng he writes cant be reflected towards teh whole religion, or even other fundementalists.

Dude I never said that it should reflect the whole religion or its beliefs, I just said he was religiously motivated when he carried these acts out.

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Originally posted by: Nai

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Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
I've said what i had to say and those who don't agree just ramble the same unjustified nonsense as before.

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And you wonder why he called you narrow-minded earlier? To brand everything that doesn't agree with your own view "unjustified nonsense" isn't what I'd call open-minded exactly.

Anyway, I should have known better than get involved in yet another war debate. I'm done.

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That's emphasis on the unjustified in unjustified nonsense.. a lot of you people on this thread offer no avenue through which to convey how we can be peaceful with these extremists when they don't give a damn about anything but killing and are not afraid at all to die for their cause. I don't see how we can somehow sit down and talk things out... that's not their way. Their culture is murder, these people are trained from an early age to become killing machines.

And saying they have some kind of justification for what they do is absolutely incredulous.

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Originally posted by: Nai

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Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
I've said what i had to say and those who don't agree just ramble the same unjustified nonsense as before.

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And you wonder why he called you narrow-minded earlier? To brand everything that doesn't agree with your own view "unjustified nonsense" isn't what I'd call open-minded exactly.

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Sorry but nice try. I don't just pull adjectives out of my ass to add flavor to my responses. The reason for my use of the word unjustified is simply because every single post made against our points had the lack of justification to them. They were sugar-coated concepts that had no discernable feasibility.

Hey, we should all put down our weapons and talk to the terrorists. Allow ourselves to be their shoulder to cry on. Then all will be right with the world.

Sounds like a good idea....here's another one......
tomorrow I'm going to figure out how to use happiness as an alternate source of power for my geo.

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Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Sounds like a good idea....here's another one......
tomorrow I'm going to figure out how to use happiness as an alternate source of power for my geo.

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It can't be done, I tried it earlier, however! Rage maybe be a better source as there is more emotion in pure rage and the happiness engine(tm) simply lacks power to do anything. If you have any further progress however I would be interested in knowing, thanks! =)

Nai, you're not done. Answer this.

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Originally posted by: Mut@chi

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Originally contradicted by: Nai
They should definitely do their utmost to apprehend the people responsible for it. This should not serve to fuel yet another war campaign, however.

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This is just a paradox. You're just contradicting yourself. There is NO way people who are responsible is going to be apprehended without GB, US, or whoever taking action. <u>How the hell is group A (people who are after the responsible ones) suppose to apprehend group B?</u> No one is going to turn group B in, and for sure they aren't going to turn themselves in. That just leaves those group A with one choice, capture them by force. If group B is going to stop group A from capturing them, should group A stop and sit down so they can talk things over? No, of course not.

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Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Sorry but nice try. I don't just pull adjectives out of my ass to add flavor to my responses. The reason for my use of the word unjustified is simply because every single post made against our points had the lack of justification to them. They were sugar-coated concepts that had no discernable feasibility.

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Yeah, that's why you couldn't even answer my last lengthy post...

would this be a bad time to show this? end of the world!

I shed a tear in front of my TV set before. There was this story about a girl who took the subway, on one of the trains which exploded. She barely managed to survive and her boyfriend (naturally worried out of his mind) calls her, making sure she's alright. She replies with "It's okay, I'll take the bus instead". Guess which bus she took? Number 30. She died in the explosion on that one.

LIFE IS SO FUCKING UNFAIR!

Goddamnit...