Kabaneri of the Iron Fortress (TV)

Don't understand the complaint about lack of danger, but I'll leave you guys at it.

I'm here for the action though, not for the horror. If you're here for the horror, then yeah I can see a bit of that.

As for Mumei vs. Ikoma and their infections, keep in mind that Mumei is exerting a lot of more energy than Ikoma in these fights... further more she's removing the limiter (the ribbon) from her neck, something that apparently keeps the virus somewhat in check. But as that one scene showed, emotional distress/anxiety might also cause some effect.

As for Ikoma, since he hanged himself, he's always had that collar around his neck keeping pressure. So we don't know what effect that has on his status and what would happen to him if he removes it.

I'm not discounting that Ikoma might be a bit different, but the evidence as has been presented so far (particularly once you consider his reaction when he got hungry) doesn't lend truth to that idea.

I have no problem with Mumei closing herself off. Ever since the beginning it's been very evident that she has a very narrow vision when it concerns her "brother" and her mission. This wasn't out of nowhere, and seeing a reminder to people who have been cast-off merely brought her back to her natural stance, with a bit of distress of course when she began considering that she was distracted. First episode she ignored everyone and went ahead and did as she pleased. That she opened up a bit in an episode or two, doesn't mean that she can simply waive off the anxiety she's always shown when her "brother" is concerned.

I mean, has there been a single episode so far in which she didn't do as she wanted? That's pretty much her standard operating procedure. Not sure why anyone would be surprised by it other than her being a bit more cold and dismissive of everyone, which is fine. Everyone has moods.

I thought Mumei's development was warranted, but the execution was lacking. It felt like the episode forced the idea through our heads instead of building up to it. Then we have Ikoma shouting like a nutcase but achieving very little in convincing Mumei.

This episode just didn't have the elegance I expected it to have. Naturally, this standard of judging already throws most shows into the bin, so it's not really a big criticism to Kabaneri in particular.

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Originally Posted by Ryll

Whatever she is, isn't as complete as Ikoma, his appears to have gone to completion. When he fights too long, he gets the blood thirst, but the infection doesn't spread to his head.

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I don't think he has a time limit. When he loses blood he gets blood thirst.

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Originally Posted by shinta|hikari

I thought Mumei's development was warranted, but the execution was lacking. It felt like the episode forced the idea through our heads instead of building up to it. Then we have Ikoma shouting like a nutcase but achieving very little in convincing Mumei.

This episode just didn't have the elegance I expected it to have. Naturally, this standard of judging already throws most shows into the bin, so it's not really a big criticism to Kabaneri in particular.

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I'm very much fine with that observation as I agreed with that aspect of your earlier post.

My execution problem is not with the development though, but why was she suddenly feeling like she lost a step? I don't recall that ever being an issue earlier or foreshadowed. All we saw that there was a lack of blood supply so maybe she had a couple of bad fights, but that doesn't explain her sudden apparent "distraction", something that hasn't been of issue so far.

So if anything, I can understand if someone has a problem with that particular aspect.

Speaking of that, we need scenes where we see these guys drinking blood.

The kabaneri need to drink blood because their kabane heart requires it, it seems to me. Hard to say if they need to drink no matter what they do or only if they really use their kabaneri powers, but it would make sense using more power means they get thirsty sooner. If they are still half human, they should be able to produce their own blood like human do, but it hasn't been verified yet. It also might not be enough.

I had a big problem with Mumei listening so keenly to someone she obviously despises. But that's how I always feel when in typical shounen the hero is always ready to listen to the words of the villain and even believe it all, no exceptions. This time Mumei took advice from a failed person so much to heart heart that she threw all that she had achieved so far away and proceeded to do dangerous and stupid things. Right. It also made no sense whatsoever, no matter how you look at it. No idea what kind of a scumbag this brother of hers is, but would he possibly care less about the train full of people than randomly killing random kabane in a lost town, not that he would ever hear of those slain kabane, but if that train ever reaches a safe town, he would hear about it. It's like Mumei totally lost her thinking faculties when the pirate talked to her.

Another annoying thing is Ikoma's attention span of a five years old. The moment something new catches his eye, he totally forgets what he was currently doing and for what purpose and runs for the new toy. It's like that every fricking single time.

She took the message to heart because the failed person still bested her. That's proof enough to her that she's gotten weak and complacent.

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Originally Posted by Buffalobiian

She took the message to heart because the failed person still bested her. That's proof enough to her that she's gotten weak and complacent.

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Further more, he was a cautionary tale.... high ranking dude. That she 'hates' him simply becaue he became some sort of failure, also means that she could just as easily be discarded. I don't see that as a problem.

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Originally Posted by Munsu

Further more, he was a cautionary tale.... high ranking dude. That she 'hates' him simply becaue he became some sort of failure, also means that she could just as easily be discarded. I don't see that as a problem.

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Sure, if it was a failed person she obviously didn't hate and had reason to assume would be on her side. But she hates him and he was threatening her with a weapon. There's no way that he would be feeding her bullshit under those circumstances, right? Not that he would have said anything all that should have been new to her. It was like the usual "what you are playing at here and taking it easy?" speech. Despite the fact she was instrumental in saving a train, a noble, a bunch of bunshi, a foreign specialist, and finally some commoners. What had that dude achieved to be so high and mighty? He had lost an eye and a leg and apparently his position as well. That man knew nothing and achieved nothing since he was among the fleeing survivors of that overrun town. Didn't see him working hard to get to the crane, you know. All that was coming out of his mouth was the whining of a loser, and Mumei was stupid to lend an ear. She was doing perfectly fine before, not so much anymore.

I think Mumei was generally more mechanical before she began interacting with Ikoma and all these people. That was what the pirate was referring to. Mumei didn't "believe" him. She merely remembered what she forgot after being surrounded by unaccustomed warmth.

See, this episode makes sense after a LOT of deeper thought and analysis, and that's the problem. If delivered well, Kraco wouldn't be complaining, and the rest wouldn't need to defend it. I stand by my thought that this wasn't a content but an execution issue.

An easy way to fix this abrupt change in Mumei would've been to split this episode into 2. First one introduces pirate and Mumei's past, and then shows how soft she has gotten. Then the end of that episode shows pirate besting her. Then the next episode shows Mumei's gradual decline because of her fear of being thrown away. All that should be happening while the train and plot progresses in the background. Rather, that should've been the background to the greater plot, not the focus of the episode.

Because they crammed this all into 20 minutes, everything felt very artificial. The pirate existed just so he could babble a condensed version of Mumei's backstory. The debris blocking the tracks felt like it existed just so Mumei could go berserk and get herself in trouble. Mumei's stupid actions only happened so she could fall from the cliff and get some alone time with the hero (TROPE ALERT!!!). It felt ridiculously forced. Lazy. Wakiless.

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Originally Posted by Kraco

Sure, if it was a failed person she obviously didn't hate and had reason to assume would be on her side. But she hates him and he was threatening her with a weapon. There's no way that he would be feeding her bullshit under those circumstances, right? Not that he would have said anything all that should have been new to her. It was like the usual "what you are playing at here and taking it easy?" speech. Despite the fact she was instrumental in saving a train, a noble, a bunch of bunshi, a foreign specialist, and finally some commoners. What had that dude achieved to be so high and mighty? He had lost an eye and a leg and apparently his position as well. That man knew nothing and achieved nothing since he was among the fleeing survivors of that overrun town. Didn't see him working hard to get to the crane, you know. All that was coming out of his mouth was the whining of a loser, and Mumei was stupid to lend an ear. She was doing perfectly fine before, not so much anymore.

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Well as I mentioned before, my problem with the situation was specific to her suddenly feeling distracted and seemingly weak, not up to the task; off mission. I have no problem with her taking to heart whatever this dude said, as I said he's a good cautionary tale. My problem was why did she suddenly feel distracted when nothing prior to that seemed to support that idea other than suddenly this guy able to pull a gun on her.

Maybe she's THAT much of a badass that something like that prior would've been such an impossibility that it "panicked" her, but I think that's a bit far fetched. But it can be rationalized I guess, whether I like it or not.

Again my problem is not that she listened to someone she hated, particularly if she can envision how easily he could've been her under different circumstances (and she could still be), and then add to that the flashback to that chick getting killed off added to it.

It's not bullshit what he was feeding her if she has seen the evidence of his claims personally, and there's plenty to suggest so far that lends truth through her experiences. So it isn't really that she was buying his bullshit, more so that he got her back recalling her precarious situation, something she already knows.

My main problem though is why does she feel unsuitable suddenly? That's my issue with it. Nothing so far shows that she's been distracted or not up to the task she's been handed, so why the sudden feeling of that? There's always been some inkling that she has some sort of master/slave relationship with this "brother" of hers, or at least some level of deep worship for him that could cause her some irrational anxiety (and maybe rational if we take to heart the warnings). So I can see how she could suddenly get a bit disturbed. Thought it went a bit too extreme and too suddenly for my tastes. But again, I have no problem with her taking credence to whatever that dude was feeding her, whether she hated him or not.

Like Buff said, she didn't feel up to the task because a peg-legged dude, who she has no respect for, got the drop on her and could've killed her. That was proof enough that she was getting soft, at least in her eyes. It makes sense, just rushed.

Dunno if its the VA or the scripting but this show is painful to watch. Even for casual talk they use tones that feel desperate cries. I had to fastforward parts of the episode cause it was giving me headache.

I'm guessing both? Ikoma in particular is painful to listen to.

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Originally Posted by shinta|hikari

I'm guessing both? Ikoma in particular is painful to listen to.

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Yes, I hate Ikoma's VA... should've mentioned earlier but didn't bother.

He's the VA from Ushio & Tora, and he sucks balls. He brings the same kind of problems you guys are seeing here to that show.

I wish they cast someone better for him. It's making it hard to root for him to get into Mumei's non-existent panties.

As a break from all the negativity, I think the consistently good action animation bears mention. Mumei's badassery is always nice to see.

I'm guessing the zombies use normal vision because she bothered to create a smoke screen. She, on the other hand, made it very easy for herself to see the glowing targets on the zombies' chests.

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Originally Posted by shinta|hikari

I wish they cast someone better for him. It's making it hard to root for him to get into Mumei's non-existent panties.

As a break from all the negativity, I think the consistently good action animation bears mention. Mumei's badassery is always nice to see.

I'm guessing the zombies use normal vision because she bothered to create a smoke screen. She, on the other hand, made it very easy for herself to see the glowing targets on the zombies' chests.

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I'm here for the action, if something better comes along it'll be pure gravy.

As for Ikoma, I actually like his character a lot. Just hate the VA and his bleached bangs.

But it's a tendency, the better the overall anime is, the more critical we become.

Yeah action thus far is pretty neat. But I noticed the art at the begging of this episode to be sloppy (or at least I got that impression). The setting and lore are very appealing to, dunno if the train travel will get old further into the show but until now it worked nicely.

I liked the cartridge "invention"/explanation even thou the sword thing seemed silly but I was spoiled since the first OP so had it discounted and it was the only way to make mister samurai cool against those steampunk guns.

Together with Re:zero is my favourite (wich is not saying much tbh) show and one of the only 3 I follow in a more or less weekly basis.

Only the action scenes look great. Half the time, the art is just okay, with the exception of certain close up face cuts, which look very detailed. When waki shows up, the art becomes utterly and inexplicably terrible.

What's your other weekly show? Are you following Kuromukuro?

I have few problems with this show otherwise. It's just this episode that felt so forced and strange. It could have probably been fixed if they had done things like Shinta said. I don't even particularly hate Ikoma's VA's performance, even though I readily recognize the objectively poor acting you mentioned. The action is splendid, I like the train theme alot and I wouldn't mind if they kept travelling for a while, as long as they come up with interesting stuff along the way. I do think the author and the anime director should have gone a bit more in the direction of horror instead of hordes of relatively weak enemies. Standard horror works pretty well and isn't so hard to make. Combined with the general steampunk samurai setting it would have been rather novel, in fact.

But if this episode is a real sign of the author's limits of imagination, then things could be dire indeed.

You know, it's quite possible there are different people working on the first two episodes and the last three. Maybe the director got sick or something.

Or Annopressed.