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I think I read it somewhere in this (or another) forum (years ago, before I was a member). it was the explanation for why the one-tails is called Shukaku and the Kyuubi has no other name - because the author came up with the idea of the tailed beasts later and he needed a name for the funky racoon (they never called it one-tails in the "original" Naruto).Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthEnder
but I'm not 100% sure. after all, it wasn't Kishimoto who told me...
Wouldn't surprise me either way.
Especially when you consider how long it took him to explain elements to the audience, or how long it took them to reveal what exactly makes Jirayai a "Sage".
fuck all the haters, I thought this episode was boss.
Filler bla bla bla well I'd rather a full 20 min fight that is more realized, since we are using a different medium that allows for more to go on.
Just cause they added scenes that weren't drawn doesn't detract from the story or make it "not what happened" it's expanding the story in a way that doesn't change the story.
The animation? GTFO if you criticize this team. Every single episode they've done has had weird moments, funky facial expressions, etc... it's a trademark, and it brings us fast action that doesn't look like Gai vs. Clones
Anyway ppl will never be pleased, this is one of the best shippuden eps, one of the top of all time I'm sure for many.
All in all i liked it alot!!! Now i'm upset we gotta wait 2 weeks ><
Bullshit it doesn't change the story!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagari
I'm all for adding more action to a fight scene, but not when the additions are in direct violation of this previously established, half of which create straight up plot holes.
1. They gave the Kyuubi fire attacks. He doesn't have fire attacks. But they've never stated he DOESN'T have fire attacks, so this one isn't so bad.
2. They gave Pain water attacks. Even though they specifically stated each Pain is only able to use one specific kind of power. Giving him attacks not related to his Push/Pull powers is a plot hole. And the only reason they did that was so they could flood the battlefield. Because apparently, this animation team is completely incapable of creating any fight scene that doesn't take place on top of a lake.
3. They made Pain's Push field able to absorb a continuous barrage of attacks. After they went out of their way to establish that it has a 5 second recharge after repelling an attack. That is a plot hole. And considering that that was the weakness that Kakashi fucking DIED to discover, it's not just a plot hole, but a massive FUCK YOU to ignore it.
4. They made the last Pain able to withstand 20 times as much damage as the other 5. Some are using the excuse that it's a corpse, but if that mattered, then the other 5 wouldn't have all gone down in single attacks. Other's are saying "Well since it's the last/most important Pain, Nagato must making it extra tough". Guess what, if the viewer has to pull abilities out of their ass to explain why you did something, THAT'S A PLOT HOLE!
5. They adding a ton of scenes showing the Pain body becoming enraged or is shown struggling to use it's powers. This is in direct contrast to how its supposed to be. While Nagato main be angry or struggling, the Pains never show those reactions. Because the Pains do not mimic Nagato's movements, they do what he commands them to. So having Pain straining and screaming while he's trying to create that meteor means that Nagato would be commanding it to do that. Which would mean that while he's supposed to be concentrating on making his Meteor, he's using part of his focus to make his puppet making faces. Not really a plothole, but it undermines the eerieness of Pain being the villain that doesn't react to anything that happens.
So yeah, I'd say they did plenty to fuck up the story.
And sorry, but the animation WAS shit. The other episodes done by this team are great. In this one it is shit. It is NOT the same. And people are giving it a pass just because it's the same team when it is flat out not as good as their previous episodes.
just imo on this one. he sustained his push long enough to stop them all. the cooldown starts after that. he didnt push each individual one with its own push. the cooldown started after the first barrage, and the 2nd one hit him, because thats when he was on cooldown.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthEnder
I see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagari
Then that makes everything perfectly fine.
But that's also not how the power works.Quote:
Originally Posted by redcat
It's not a force field bubble, it's literally a push. He blasts force outwards in all directions. It only deflects those attacks that were in the air when he activates the push. Like the second time he uses it, all those Konoha ninja attacked him at once and he was able to deflect all their attacks because they were all going to hit at once and all got blasted away by a single push.
well I disagree. I know he usually used smaller bursts of a push for most attacks cause thats all the was required and would take less effort/chakra. but im pretty sure sustaining the push over time is what would cause it to have a cooldown longer than 5 seconds. you could also see when he tried to push kyuubi naruto away, after a few seconds of pushing he eventually pushed himself away. also the fact that his universal pull to make that big ball of dirt was one long pull and not just a series of bursts.
I don't think Planetary Destruction was cannon, so it'll be hard pushed to call it fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by redcat
But the push that wiped out Konoha, from memory, was sustained. It was on a different scale compared to everything else, but the same rules probably apply if all the Pains indeed have just one ability.
No, Planetary Destruction was definitely in the manga.
I don't see any evidence that the village one was any more sustained that his normal ones. It was a single blast that traveled outwards. Yes, it took a while, but that looked less like him pushing continuously, and more like one giant blast, that just took that long to travel all the way out to the edge of the village.
The pull obviously behaves differently than the push. From the first time he tried to pull Kakashi in, it was obvious it could be sustained.Quote:
Originally Posted by redcat
As far as the "longer than five second" the only time it's had a longer cooldown was when he used it to destroy the village. And the extra long cooldown on that was obviously because...yeah, he used it on the whole village.
Just to note, if Pain had not used his Giant push to destroy Konoha before Sage Naruto appeared. The Push/Pull Pain would have wiped Sage Naruto's ass, since he didnt have to wait for his cool down to clear.
Yeah, probably. All six at once with the main Pain still powered up?Quote:
Originally Posted by depthcharge
The end result would have probably been the same though. He get's his ass kicked, Hinata comes to save him and gets taken down, then the Fox defeats Pain.
I doubt adding the other 5 Pains would have really altered the end result once the Fox was in play.
Not to mention naruto already had the inside scoop on all of pain's powers
Pain got shafted on this one, no doubt about it
thats not true, well maybe in the manga ( don't know) but in the anime we've seen them smiling after that soul guy-pain took out some random ninja, and the first summoner-pain really felt pain when he was trapped in jirayas waterbubble.Quote:
This is in direct contrast to how its supposed to be. While Nagato main be angry or struggling, the Pains never show those reactions.
unlike the second summoner (lol oh wow, naruto doesn't make sense, who would've thought *that*....)
that would also mean, that nagato "commands" his last pain-body to talk to himself even though noone is near itQuote:
So having Pain straining and screaming while he's trying to create that meteor means that Nagato would be commanding it to do that.
so it's most likely happening subconsciously
thats not true, it was just extremely exaggerated, you either like it, hate it, or accept it... but not something we haven't seen already.Quote:
And sorry, but the animation WAS shit.
Gurren Lagann for example, was full of such weird-over-the-top scenes.
however this episode had some really, really good camera angles
which made the fight look very cool
I remember the first time those guys made me go WTF. It was the Naruto Torpedos in Naruto vs. Sasuke 2. I was loving the character distortion up until that point, and that scene just cause me to pause and question what the hell I was looking at. But it only lasted a few seconds, so I just shrugged it off.Quote:
Originally Posted by KrayZ33
The first ten minutes of this episode were like wall to wall Narutorpedos.
Watch the episodes of Jiraiya invading Pain's village again. He uses a water jutsu then, and that wasn't the only jutsu not related to gravity that he has used. For example, he summoned the akatsuki statue back during the Gaara arc. The "each Pain can only use one power" is a supposition of the konoha ninjas that was never confirmed by Pain (the one who knows his powers better than anyone). Animal Realm, the body that supposedly can only summon, was seen using the substitution jutsu against Jiraiya, and I already checked it and it's not filler.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthEnder
That was a weakness when Nagato was controlling all of the bodies at the same time. As we have seen when Nagato destroyed Konoha, the five sec rule won't always apply because he had to wait much more than that before he got his powers back. It is likely that the stronger the pull or push, the longer is the recharge time.Quote:
3. They made Pain's Push field able to absorb a continuous barrage of attacks. After they went out of their way to establish that it has a 5 second recharge after repelling an attack. That is a plot hole. And considering that that was the weakness that Kakashi fucking DIED to discover, it's not just a plot hole, but a massive FUCK YOU to ignore it.
Pain had already survived direct hits from both Sage Naruto and Sage Jiraiya. They are extremely resistant to physical attacks. But wait, rasengan did the job, right? Well, that can be explained by how rasengan affects the insides of a person, which is a better way of destroying the black rods Nagato needs in order to control Pain. Pain does not feel any Pain, physical attacks, which was what the Kyuubi mainly used, seems not to work on him.Quote:
4. They made the last Pain able to withstand 20 times as much damage as the other 5. Some are using the excuse that it's a corpse, but if that mattered, then the other 5 wouldn't have all gone down in single attacks. Other's are saying "Well since it's the last/most important Pain, Nagato must making it extra tough". Guess what, if the viewer has to pull abilities out of their ass to explain why you did something, THAT'S A PLOT HOLE!
This is funny considering the fact that we had way worse than this episode during this arc. Save for Pain vs Kakashi (which had bad art here and there but it was okay), this arc has been shit, plain and simple. This episode was one of the best ones and puts 163 and 164 (which looked like a slide-show episode) to shame.Quote:
And sorry, but the animation WAS shit. The other episodes done by this team are great. In this one it is shit. It is NOT the same. And people are giving it a pass just because it's the same team when it is flat out not as good as their previous episodes.
166 was pretty awesome too. Hinata vs Pain reminded me of 85, when it was Kakashi vs the akatsuki guys
I couldn't find the scene were he used water jutsu.can you please tell me wich ep/min is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by antiravage
well, but this is funny, too. you're telling this with your understanding of what art is and how an anime should look like. but you complain other opinions.Quote:
This is funny considering the fact that we had way worse than this episode during this arc. Save for Pain vs Kakashi (which had bad art here and there but it was okay), this arc has been shit, plain and simple. This episode was one of the best ones and puts 163 and 164 (which looked like a slide-show episode) to shame.
( actually this makes the whole discussion meaningless ;) )
I liked 163's rough animation much better than 167's floating. and eg. Picasso's cubism isn't less artistic than artists who paint more detailed.
This? http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/368/12/Quote:
Originally Posted by antiravage
He just force pushed the clouds away, we just didn't know about his powers yet so it made it look like he had godly powers, just asAizenKishimoto planned
That... i can't explain it without spoiling but there's a reason for that
And ofc they can use the substitution jutsu, they can also walk on water and probably do a bunch of other basic ninja moves
Pain mentions the sage of the 6th paths all the time.
I think what is confusing people for them having one skill is "One Path skill of the 6 paths"
Which is why there is 6 of them.. Their element Chakra doesnt matter is my opinion. Meaning, they can use as many elements as they want, yes? Am I wrong here?
So Yahiko Pain can use Water, fire, earth, ice etc etc. That is my thoughts. No flames please.
As for Kyuubi having fire attacks, as a demon fox, wouldnt he know all about elements and certain skills, you know... being thousands of years old. :P
I don't see these plotholes other people see. I see continuation of the story.