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Then why did he go bat nuts and shout out commands for his squad to run away? Going back peacefully with all of his squad to resolve the misunderstanding is the safest option. Waving your hand around and screaming in a foreign language while at spear point, causing giant metal vehicles to suddenly move IS NOT a safe move.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterOfMoogles
*Gasp* A military movie/series that's not realistic and shows off heroic deeds and decisions made by soldiers?Quote:
Itīs just completely unrealistic, how Itami risked his life there. No soldier would do that, and Iīm saying that confidently without ever having been one. Give a round of warning shots or something.
Wasn't it pretty obvious that the knights were going to fight? He sent them away to prevent the fight from starting. The knights ordered them to surrender.Quote:
Then why did he go bat nuts and shout out commands for his squad to run away? Going back peacefully with all of his squad to resolve the misunderstanding is the safest option.
They were like 2 seconds from opening fire after he got slapped. That was the only way for them not to be massacred.Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
It was unlikely the knights would calm down with an enemy squad right there.
He made a split-second decision to defuse the situation.
Hostages have value. You don't kill hostages unless you have to. Having a hostage makes you feel safer. You can also tickle him for information.
Having no hostages makes you feel unsafe. Having no hostages and an armed squad in front of you makes you feel even less so.
It's pretty straight forward.
All such reasoning is nonsense. He wanted to become their boytoy, plain and simple. Just prior to this we saw him taking a very cautious, and sensible, route to ensure none of his men would die during the city siege. Now he got out of his car for no reason whatsoever. He could have staid in the car in the first place and ordered them all to retreat if that's his supposed master plan. Horses carrying knights would have lost that race by default. He could also have used Rory, if he really wanted to have a perfectly peaceful conclusion. Rory doesn't seem to be under bloodlust anymore, so she wouldn't have started to slaughter the knights, but the knights would have listened to her out of reverence. The most smart approach would have been to talk with them, without exposing himself to danger like he did. I'm far from sure that princess's knights would have really started the fight, even if they were behaving aggressively. If they had, just shoot the horses and be done with it.
Itami wanted to become a rug for the ladies to step on, following his sexual fantasies. No other way to explain this. I hope he gets demoted if he's ever released.
He got out of the car because one of the knights had drawn a sword and had their hand on his soldier's collar.
Any rash actions have a chance of getting people killed. I really don't think there were any other good options.
I don't know where you're getting this crazy masochist thing from.
From the fact he seems to be enjoying his life of a face bruised by Rory. If the situation indeed was as delicate and dangerous as you say, why did he get out of the car? That makes no sense. He got out hoping for this sort of a conclusion. That's why he got rid of all friendlies as fast as he could.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterOfMoogles
@Moogles: It doesnīt make sense for a professional soldier to sacrifice his own life in that kind of situation. Thatīs just not how military works and therefore is dumb.In that kind of situation theyīd have stayed sitting inside the car. As soon as those wannabe knights drew their swords, theyīd have given a verbal warning, then warning shots. And if those knights then decide to attack ... itīs entirely their own fault for provoking violence.
Itami had a mind boner and ignored all and any reason. That is all.
I'm with Moogs.
Stupid as it is how he did it, Itami got out of the vehicle to attempt to negotiate. It's less intimidating to do so from an apparent equal or weaker position (i.e. not in the vehicle).
Those knights don't understand what the Humvees are, they don't understand how overwhelmingly powerful the SDF is compared, and they don't know about the deal he already made with the princess. He tried to defuse the situation, and when he realized it was getting worse, he had his own people back off to avoid the bloodbath. The blonde bishoujo knight isn't going to kill him, she's gonna take him right back to Pina.
Itami can't risk a single one of his soldiers getting killed. He's on a diplomatic mission, yet a few in his squad are clearly trigger-happy. He loses a soldier to the people they're attempting to make peace with, and his squad won't want to do anything else but kill "the enemy," from there on out. The SDF is in a position of power, they can afford to relent a bit here and there.
Don't forget that the SDF can probably wipe out the entire active military force of this world in a matter of months at most, but that won't get Japan what they want out of this new world. The parallels with recent global conflicts are pretty obvious. De-escalating any conflict they come across is preferable to continually using force.
The execution was horrible, plain and simple.
@Buff - You have to consider how the scene played out. The knights were at full alert, then the leader of the enemy force suddenly shouts out (in a foreign language so they had no idea he was saying retreat) and waves his hands, and then all his troops start moving. Normally, the knights would've reacted and started fighting, thinking it was commencement of hostilities. But no one moved. Plot FTW.
The best way was for him to command his troops to surrender and safely go back to the city. Why didn't he do this? His split-second decision was wrong, and the turnout was quite unbelievable.
EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm fine with what he did as long as he himself understands that it isn't the best course of action. He's an otaku, and there were 2 hot knights. If that's his reason and he confirms as much, I'm okay with it. I just don't want the show to play this off as a brilliant move on his part because it isn't.
which is totally irrelevantQuote:
itīs entirely their own fault for provoking violence.
It's really not that hard to understand what he tried to do there.. and it had nothing to do with having a nice time with the girls.
not buying into this, sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by KrayZ33
I think you have to consider how little the knights know about the SDF to understand their actions in this scenario.Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
A whole knight squad has just stopped a tiny enemy contingent of 3 carriages? on the road. While questioning one of the seemingly unarmed drivers?, a seemingly leader-type person appears, also unarmed, and tries to negotiate.
When the knights exert their authority in power and numbers by slapping him, he yells something. Since no mages appear and no armed warriors exit the carriages, this isn't a threatening situation at all. Instead, they've just captured the enemy leader.
From Itami's perspective, you have to understand the whole situation happens in like 30 seconds or less.
They're coming back from making the first successful peace treaty. He absolutely doesn't want to kill anybody or start a new conflict. As they try to talk their way out, his man gets grabbed, so he jumps out of the car to negotiate, thinking they'll let him explain.
Instead, he gets slapped and his troops are about to open fire. So he tells them to run away.
It really does all make sense.
You could say Itami is naive, thinking that he could negotiate. The absolute safest choice would have been to just go off-road and drive around them. Other than that though, I don't think it makes sense to criticize the rest of his actions.
Nobody wants that. But please tell me what you think would happen, if a group of american soldiers encountered a unknown group of afghan people with firearms. They donīt understand each other due to language barrier, and even the culture is very different. Now the afghans point their weapons at the american soldiers - what would happen? Thatīs a rethorical question btw. Of course, the american soldiers would, at the very moment the afghans move their firearms, blow the unknown party to hell and back again. Unless we assume that japanese soldiers are trained completely differently, the same should have happened here with Itamiīs group.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterOfMoogles
Again, nobody wants anybody to die - but no soldier would risk his life for such an unpredictable outcome. And it doesnīt make a soldier "evil" to shoot in such situation.
Of course, it was a group of hot lady knights and Itami had a boner, so ...
It's funny that you don't see the possibility that this is the reason why he did all that.Quote:
Now the afghans point their weapons at the american soldiers - what would happen?
That aside, are you talking about Afghan military or terrorists/rebels?
It's a difference if they are bound to a treaty or not. Dunno, doesn't really fit here. You could say it's as if they left a hole in the berlin wall or something and both east and west troops struggle to find out who is in control and the first shot could lead to war again.
And then there was this "doctrine" in the past: "Don't shoot unless you are shot at" Who knows what their RoE currently are, now that they achieved a more friendly relationship.
The knights wanted to capture them. They moved. It's really odd for those knights to do nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterOfMoogles
EDIT: I rewatched it and the whole scene really was done poorly. Itami had more than enough time to run back to a vehicle then command them to retreat. Did you see how leisurely the blond knight tried to apprehend him when he shouted and the gap between them? The way it was done made it seem like Itami wanted to be captured.
Just to make it clear that I'm not just mindlessly griping, I'll propose an alternative way to get the same result.
Itami gets slapped and immediately gets grabbed. This is important to make him staying behind logical.
Instead of shouting in panic, he calmly gives out his retreat order to prevent agitating the enemy. Skillfully using a radio at this point makes sense.
His people retreat, he gets stuck with the knights, and we get the same result we have now, only without all the oddness.
I think, too, that it made no sense. There are a lot of things that dont make sense. Usually the leader goes on head. Second you dont get into "melee distance" to speak to hostile people, even leaving partial cover (door) is unheard of but going into the danger zone is plain stupid. Third you dont grant a free hostage, showing how you dont give a fuck cause everything is under control and the "misunderstanding" is going to be cleared easily and then create a fking amazing ruckuss to prevent more hostages being taken.
Shouting like a crazy guy, then having 2 humvees and an armored truck stepping the pedal and drifting while you have a sword on your neck. Only by the surprise of the more than 100 dB that those engines make at high rpm that sword should have ended inside his neck.
Obviously its an anime and we should just let our minds fly free into the lands of no fucking sense.
There's a limit to everything.
If Itami had broken into a run, who knows what the knights would have done. That could have very easily started a melee. He could have been run down on horseback or had a dagger thrown at him or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
The knights' actions make sense when you consider that they think they have the upper hand significantly in this encounter. They've got a full squad of mounted knights against a few carriages and strangely clothed but unarmed people.
If you don't know about guns, Itami's squad appears extremely unthreatening, especially given his demeanor when he gets out of the car.
I don't disagree that Itami suspected he would be captured. At the same time, he also seems to think he can talk his way out of this one, as long as he just gets a chance to explain. This doesn't seem too unreasonable, since he can name-drop the princess and explain what happened. The knights shouldn't have a reason to hurt him.
Positing that he did this out of same masochistic impulse just seems really weird to me.
Except:Quote:
Now the afghans point their weapons at the american soldiers - what would happen?
1) you are returning from an Afghan city, and
2) You just saved their Afghan boss, and
3) They're knights in shining armour.
These girls are dangerous if provoked, but they wouldn't slaughter you like a lamb on the spot either. Even in medieval days they know about intel, and torturing for intel. Look at this little green man with his black eye.. let'skill him on the spotshow him to Princess!