The Naruto Dub

[JaySee]

Except it's not a matter of opinion. That's how the word is said. If you can't accept that, then this argument isn't going anywhere.

How it's spelled and pronounced in English IS a matter of opinion. My argument is that it
is better to get the overall sound of the word versus the proper pronounciation of the vowel (which is impossible). Similar to how Japanese use an "L" sound because they have no "R" sound. There is no short oo sound in English.

1. Again, we're talking about Japanese, not English. Stop referring to English spelling/pronounciation rules.
2. As I already mentioned, your problem is with how the word is spelled in English (how it is transcribed). I don't care if you want to spell it "jootsu" or "jutesu" because at least then you would be pronouncing it correctly. Saying "Jitsu" or "Juhtsu" is dead wrong. Did you even read my post?

Again your failure to read and comprehend English comes into play.
1. I'm talking about English and you're arguing about Japanese. I agree totally with the proper Japanese pronounciation you're talking about, but you can't get it through your thick skull and keep arguing about your own topic that no one is arguing about.
2. Yes, I read your post. You read mine, but your low mental ability apparently can't comprehend it. My argument is that it's spelled and pronounced incorrectly in English, not in Japanese.

No, you would convert the word to Jutsu with a horizontal line over the "u". That would make the correct pronounciation agree with English pronouncation rules.

Again you miss the point completely.

It's a fucking Japanese word. For the last time, regular English pronounciation rules do not apply. I'll say it again (perhaps you'll see what I'm saying this time). Your problem is with the fucking spelling.

Wrong. It's a Japanese word, written into a script for a VA in ENGLISH. The VA may or may not know the pronounciations of Japanese vowels. Thus, English spelling and pronounciatiation IS important and DOES apply. Your necessity to cuss and losing your cool reveals your 12 yr old mentality or that you are in fact 12. Maybe you're better off
trying to argue with someone like Mizuchi.

[KitKat]

Come now gentlemen, let's not resort to trading petty insults. You both seem to be arguing in circles. You both have good evidence to support your points. We all know that when foreign words are imported to English, they will inevitably gain a different pronunciation, as we have seen happen here. Despite the large number of fans who watch fansubs and are aware of the original Japanese pronunciation, native English speakers will determine the pronunciation based on what seems intuitively right to them in the context of their own language. This wave of popular opinion can't be controlled with any predictable outcome. Languages change how they feel like. What we have here is a case of a new word being introduced into English. As such, there is no 'correct' pronunciation except for the pronunciation given to it by English speakers. Once it starts being used, it becomes a brand new English word, distinct from the original Japanese word. You may be unhappy with it, but you can't control it.

[JaySee]

Come now gentlemen, let's not resort to trading petty insults. You both seem to be arguing in circles. You both have good evidence to support your points. We all know that when foreign words are imported to English, they will inevitably gain a different pronunciation, as we have seen happen here. Despite the large number of fans who watch fansubs and are aware of the original Japanese pronunciation, native English speakers will determine the pronunciation based on what seems intuitively right to them in the context of their own language. This wave of popular opinion can't be controlled with any predictable outcome. Languages change how they feel like. What we have here is a case of a new word being introduced into English. As such, there is no 'correct' pronunciation except for the pronunciation given to it by English speakers. Once it starts being used, it becomes a brand new English word, distinct from the original Japanese word. You may be unhappy with it, but you can't control it.

That's pretty much what I've been saying all along. Even when a proper pronouncation is given and spelled out quite accurately, like the word "pokémon" (which is actually 2 English words combined and shortened), English speakers STILL find a way to destroy it.

And for the record, this "argument" and "name calling" wasn't instigated by yours truely. I like all these childish neg reps I've been getting through out this "argument." I even got a blank neg rep. =D

HAHA! I even got a neg rep saying "Don't complain about reps" when I said that I liked it.

[XanBcoo]

Come now gentlemen, let's not resort to trading petty insults. You both seem to be arguing in circles. You both have good evidence to support your points. We all know that when foreign words are imported to English, they will inevitably gain a different pronunciation, as we have seen happen here. Despite the large number of fans who watch fansubs and are aware of the original Japanese pronunciation, native English speakers will determine the pronunciation based on what seems intuitively right to them in the context of their own language. This wave of popular opinion can't be controlled with any predictable outcome. Languages change how they feel like. What we have here is a case of a new word being introduced into English. As such, there is no 'correct' pronunciation except for the pronunciation given to it by English speakers. Once it starts being used, it becomes a brand new English word, distinct from the original Japanese word. You may be unhappy with it, but you can't control it.

Ah well, however much I know that is true, my point originally was (and I know I kinda lost the plot for a bit) that the dub cast is actually taught the "correct" (that is to say...Japanese) pronounciation of Japanese terms and uses the closest pronounciation possible using English vowels. Hell, Sasuke's VA is even fluent in Japanese. I'm just defending the idea that the Naruto dub pronounces things wrong in...heh..."Lazy American".

I'm not about to say that when a word like "karaoke" is pronounced Kehreeohkee it's "wrong", because I know how languages borrow and change words, and like you said, might even develope a unique pronounciation of the given word. But that's not what's going on with any of the Japanese terms in the Naruto dub. The dub might cause these terms to come into popular use in the future, but I don't think it'll be responsible for radically changing these Japanese terms to American ones, especially since they're pronouncing it almost exactly as a Japanese speaker would. Or at least they're trying to.

Poketto Monsuta is Pocket Monster said with Japanese accent, not Japanese words.

It's not just accent. Similar words like Keiki, Aisu Kurimu, Senkyuu, or Konpyu-ta are loan words from English that have entered into regular Japanese use. I'd bet you can find any of them in a Japanese dictionary. They've just changed on account of Japanese's consonant-vowel-consonant structure. It's far past Japense speakers simply trying to pronounce English words.

Is this the Naruto dub discussion thread or the "let's argue over how things should be translated from Japanese to English" thread?

How the English voice actors pronounce certain names and phrases is pretty relevant to the quality of the dub. But I'm tired of this OT bullcrap.

Go Lee!

[darkmetal505]

Naruto 50 eng dub is here

Lee opens the 5th gate, but I could only find part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15aXGCRek6Y

[Mizuchi]

In the english dub, I noticed (and Im sure everyone else did too obviously), that the chakra gates had COMPLETELY different names. I kind of like some of the DB ones better and some Dub ones better.

Dub:

Open Gate
Rest Gate
Life Gate
Pain Gate
Closing Gate
Joy Gate
Shock Gate
Death Gate

Dattebayo:

Open Gate
Energy Gate
Life Gate
Wound Gate
Forest Gate
View Gate
Insanity Gate
Death Gate

Like where the dub would win is for example the 5th gate. Dub calls it Closing, DB calls it Forest. I have no idea why it would be called a Forest gate, seeing how it releases the limit on the amount of chakra released at one time. But I like how the 6th gate is called the View gate in DB, although I dont know what the 6th gate does, View just sounds a lot cooler than Joy.

[Necromas]

Ya, it was wierd seeing the gate names changed.

But one thing that really pissed me off was seeing Lee lose a fight he was winning so easily BECAUSE OF A FRIGGEN GOURD CUSHIONED HIS FALL.

I havent been this pissed since I saw the japanese version of the fight.

[Psyke]

Time for my 2 cents again

八門遁甲 The 8 Chakra Gates

The 門 character stands for door/entrance and in this case "gate" as it sounds better in English.

1. 開門 = Open Gate
2. 休門 = Rest Gate
3. 生門 = Life Gate
4. 傷門 = Wound/Hurt Gate
5. 杜門 = Stop Gate
6. 景門 = Scenery Gate
7. 憼門 = Caution Gate
8. 死門 = Death Gate

Please note that this is by no means official and is my interpretation of the kanji based on my current level of Japanese + Chinese kanji. If you would like to find out more, here is a good site to look up the meaning of kanji (not hira/kata).

http://www.jlpt-kanji.com/

[Apraxhren]

Jutsu is of Japanese origin and therefore spelled and pronounced in Japanese. Just because a word is used in the English vocabulary, which in this case it is not, the word is still pronounced in the language of origin. For example, cliché, décor and sabotage are all French words which have taken on a meaning in English, they are still pronounced using the French phonology. As opposed to the previous examples Jutsu contains no meaning in English it can only be translated to roughly equate to skill or art. Pokémon, which is not a combination of two English words but rather a combination of the two Japanese words Poketto Monsuta, is a word of Japanese origin that refers to a game made by Nintendo. I would also offer up the notion that there is no "English pronunciation" only the pronunciation used by the speaker of the origins word, which the majority of the English vocabulary is a mixture of Latin, Germanic, and French.

[JaySee]

Jutsu is of Japanese origin and therefore spelled and pronounced in Japanese. Just because a word is used in the English vocabulary, which in this case it is not, the word is still pronounced in the language of origin. For example, cliché, décor and sabotage are all French words which have taken on a meaning in English, they are still pronounced using the French phonology. As opposed to the previous examples Jutsu contains no meaning in English it can only be translated to roughly equate to skill or art. Pokémon, which is not a combination of two English words but rather a combination of the two Japanese words Poketto Monsuta, is a word of Japanese origin that refers to a game made by Nintendo. I would also offer up the notion that there is no "English pronunciation" only the pronunciation used by the speaker of the origins word, which the majority of the English vocabulary is a mixture of Latin, Germanic, and French.

I can destroy your argument with one word. FORTE. English speakers pronounce it For-Teh or For-Tay. Its proper French pronounciation is one syllable: FORT. There are many more examples of European words destroyed by ignorant English speakers, but that one comes to mind first.

Poketto Monsuta is Pocket Monster said with Japanese accent, not Japanese words.

Note: I got a nice neg rep about my post being anti-American and telling me to STFU. HA! Right-wing idiot. It's amazing how people make up stuff in their minds out of nothing. I bet the fool doesn't even realize that he's contradicting himself with an anti-American statement. See 1st amendment.

[Apraxhren]

I can destroy your argument with one word. FORTE. English speakers pronounce it For-Teh or For-Tay. Its proper French pronounciation is one syllable: FORT. There are many more examples of European words destroyed by ignorant English speakers, but that one comes to mind first.

Poketto Monsuta is Pocket Monster said with Japanese accent, not Japanese words.

Forte pronounced fawr-tey is part of musical terminology which is usually abbreviated as just f, it is derived from the Italian which was derived from the Latin word fortis.

Forte pronounced fawrt or fohrt is a meaning of strength which is derived from the Latin word fortis.

They both mean strong, the difference is one word is borrowed later from Italian along with the Italian pronunciation of the word and while both are consider correct it would really depend on which meaning of the word. Many times a word that is derived from Latin takes many forms and those forms what are now known as the 'romance languages' (French, Spanish, Italian, Romanian and Portuguese). English is a mixture of two Romanic (French and Latin) and one Germanic languages with a lot of borrowed words also. Since French is derived from Latin, and English is a mixture of the base Latin and the derived French Latin along with German it posses many problems as many words sound different yet mean the same or sound the same and mean different things(Synonyms and Homonyms). English also has a smaller amount, compared with the 80% or so derived words, of words that are borrowed increasing the confusion.

Well I went off on a tangent there as you got me distracted from the real point. Jutsu, as opposed to forte, is not a derivative. Jutsu is not even a borrowed word, it is Japanese, and it has no meaning in English. My previous examples were not the best as those words have a meaning in English. A better example would be bonjour, which is a French greeting. Bonjour does not mean anything in English; rather many English speaking people understand it to be French for a friendly greeting. Same thing with jutsu, it has no meaning in English rather many Naruto watchers understand it to be Japanese for skill.

[JaySee]

Forte pronounced fawr-tey is part of musical terminology which is usually abbreviated as just f, it is derived from the Italian which was derived from the Latin word fortis.

Forte pronounced fawrt or fohrt is a meaning of strength which is derived from the Latin word fortis.

They both mean strong, the difference is one word is borrowed later from Italian along with the Italian pronunciation of the word and while both are consider correct it would really depend on which meaning of the word. Many times a word that is derived from Latin takes many forms and those forms what are now known as the 'romance languages' (French, Spanish, Italian, Romanian and Portuguese). English is a mixture of two Romanic (French and Latin) and one Germanic languages with a lot of borrowed words also. Since French is derived from Latin, and English is a mixture of the base Latin and the derived French Latin along with German it posses many problems as many words sound different yet mean the same or sound the same and mean different things(Synonyms and Homonyms). English also has a smaller amount, compared with the 80% or so derived words, of words that are borrowed increasing the confusion.

Well I went off on a tangent there as you got me distracted from the real point. Jutsu, as opposed to forte, is not a derivative. Jutsu is not even a borrowed word, it is Japanese, and it has no meaning in English. My previous examples were not the best as those words have a meaning in English. A better example would be bonjour, which is a French greeting. Bonjour does not mean anything in English; rather many English speaking people understand it to be French for a friendly greeting. Same thing with jutsu, it has no meaning in English rather many Naruto watchers understand it to be Japanese for skill.

Both pronounciations mean "strong", however they are used in different context. Most use the Italian pronounciation in the incorrect context. The Italian word Forté is in referrence to music. The French word Forte is in referrence to a person's skill/talent.

So yeah... anyways... I agree, jutsu is a Japanese word. Never disagreed, never argued that point.

[Genma]

Is this the Naruto dub discussion thread or the "let's argue over how things should be translated from Japanese to English" thread?

[The Heretic Azazel]

Yeah, what a load of shit, you both lose.

Someone entertain me. NOW.