Episode 32 Discussion "spoilers"

[LokeXero]

Sure Kira tried to stop destroy but shot down Neo beforehand. And Stellar scared, maybe quite likely actually about Freedom killing her/Neo yes, but is see more of a revenge motive for shooting down Neo as to why she flipped out after seeing Freedom after kira shot down Neo.

Whats this about "if kira didnt stop destroy shinn wouldnt be around anymore when you think about it". At no point in this episode does Kira save Shinn and more importantly all kira did was antagonise Stellar,Neo and Sting and even you have to admit that, Kira was a great cool guy end of SEED but so far in destiny hes been nothing but an annoyance that fights for his own ideals and disrupts the major players (ZAFT and EA). Maybe there wasnt anything wrong with lingering around when he wasnt needed

Destroy was attacking a ZAFT base, AA responded to the distress call but ultimately Kira and AA should have pulled out when Minerva came along, instead of staying around as they did and things wouldnt have ended as they did meaning we woudnt be having this conversation.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: LokeXero
Sure Kira tried to stop destroy but shot down Neo beforehand. And Stellar scared, maybe quite likely actually about Freedom killing her/Neo yes, but is see more of a revenge motive for shooting down Neo as to why she flipped out after seeing Freedom after kira shot down Neo.

Whats this about "if kira didnt stop destroy shinn wouldnt be around anymore when you think about it". At no point in this episode does Kira save Shinn and more importantly all kira did was antagonise Stellar,Neo and Sting and even you have to admit that, Kira was a great cool guy end of SEED but so far in destiny hes been nothing but an annoyance that fights for his own ideals and disrupts the major players (ZAFT and EA). Maybe there wasnt anything wrong with lingering around when he wasnt needed

Destroy was attacking a ZAFT base, AA responded to the distress call but ultimately Kira and AA should have pulled out when Minerva came along, instead of staying around as they did and things wouldnt have ended as they did meaning we woudnt be having this conversation.

Have you even watched this series because everything your saying is completely wrong. First off Neo told Stellar that something bad would come and kill her if she didn't kill everything in sight. This was purely Neo making Stellar as paranoid as possible. As for Kira shooting down Neo he didn't kill the guy and perhaps if shinn didn't cut a hole in the cockpit she could have seen that Neo survived. All of that aside Kira would have at no point killed even stellar on purpose he was after destroy not the pilot.

As for Kira saving Shinn... Both Kira and Neo stopped Stellar from killing Shinn at multiple points including when kira took out destroy and Shinn was sitting in front of the chest cannon blast had Kira not stopped it from firing Shinn would undoubtably be dead. Not only that but had Kira and the Archangel not been in the battle Destroy would have killed shinn and the Minerva in seconds as nothing the Minerva could do alone would have come close to stopping it with only 1 mobile suit VS 2 Elite EA Pilots and destroy at best.

Also Destroy was not attacking a Zaft military base it was leveling every city where anyone who supported Zaft might be located killing everyone reguardless this was not a targeted attack on a Military headquarters but instead random killing of everyone and everything in its path.

[danholo]

Originally posted by: DDBenHave you even watched this series because everything your saying is completely wrong.

I don't think he does. He even mistook Neo in the openings for Rey in the Neo vs. Murrue scene.

[LokeXero]

You can argue that Shinn wouldnt be alive cept for Kira but i dont see it that way cause it wouldnt be a problem if Kira and AA didnt intervene, though even if Destroy hadve fired impulse is still not directly infront of Destroy, it wouldve cut impulse's right side apart but not necessarily killed Shinn.

Maybe Neo did make Stellar paranoid before she entered Destroy but still it wasnt until Stellar saw Kira after Shinn calmed her down that she went berserk - http://xs31.xs.to/pics/05224/GSD_32_-_0937.jpg) and the shot she sees Kira inhttp://xs31.xs.to/pics/05224/GSD_32_-_0938.jpg which causes her to go mental because to her Freedom is Death..

And Zaft did have some "Operatives/Personel" in Berlin (http://xs31.xs.to/pics/05224/GSD2.jpg) - Gibralter is in Spain (http://gundamofficial.com/worl...background/maps.html).

I concede that my comment about the opening is prob wrong but maybe speculation, i slowed the animation down and you see Hair Curls which u see earlier in Rey not Mwu hence why i thought it was Rey but i guess if majority think its Neo then it i guess it will be...

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor
This is for all of you people who hate Shinn. DON'T. He is at that point in time where he questions what he is fighting for. His purpose and reasons for fighting. If Asuran has a heart to heart talk with Shinn and doesn't say something stupid they both may learn something. Shinn is a good person. He is just a good person with some mental issues. I would be a bit cocky too if eveyone around me got shot down and I had the only surviving suit. As for taking Stellar away... well it was better than just having her disected while suffering on a ship where he could only watch and do nothing to help thus breaking the promise that he made with his woman. Shinn was also justified to get mad when Cagalli started to spout her crap. To me it was even better that he shot at her.

I personally don't like Kira in this series. All he does is go into battles gun happy. Stellar's death is his fault anyways. Why you ask. HE WAS THERE THATS WHY! If Kira wasn't there then Stellar wouldn't have had to have died there.

Also Kira didn't have to stab Destroy. There are so many differtent ways that he could havehandeled that.

I'm still not positive what series your watching here in the slightest. Lets see Kira as not killed a single person in GSD and I'm sorry but you can't prove otherwise as there isn't a single example of this at all. As far as Kira could have taken out Destroy in a differn't way? What on earth are you talking about he stabbed it and that managed to take out the suit without doing killing Stellar. I still see absolutely no way she died from the injuries she sustained in the fight. My assumption is currently she is just passed out or else Shinn is carrying around a corpse for next episode. As for what Shinn is fighting for he isn't confused at all the only thing he has ever fought for is himself all he's doing is seeking revenge and killing everyone he see's.

Now as a side note Stellar just killed hundreds of thousands of people taking out 4 cities including Berlin is not something anyone no matter why has any right to be forgiven for. She didn't end the war she just made things worse and killed tons of innocent people and heck likely created a few more Shinn's to boot.

Originally posted by: LokeXero
You can argue that Shinn wouldnt be alive cept for Kira but i dont see it that way cause it wouldnt be a problem if Kira and AA didnt intervene, though even if Destroy hadve fired impulse is still not directly infront of Destroy, it wouldve cut impulse's right side apart but not necessarily killed Shinn.

Maybe Neo did make Stellar paranoid before she entered Destroy but still it wasnt until Stellar saw Kira after Shinn calmed her down that she went berserk - http://xs31.xs.to/pics/05224/GSD_32_-_0937.jpg) and the shot she sees Kira inhttp://xs31.xs.to/pics/05224/GSD_32_-_0938.jpg which causes her to go mental because to her Freedom is Death..

And Zaft did have some "Operatives/Personel" in Berlin (http://xs31.xs.to/pics/05224/GSD2.jpg) - Gibralter is in Spain (http://gundamofficial.com/worl...background/maps.html).

I concede that my comment about the opening is prob wrong but maybe speculation, i slowed the animation down and you see Hair Curls which u see earlier in Rey not Mwu hence why i thought it was Rey but i guess if majority think its Neo then it i guess it will be...

If Kira and the archangel didn't intervene the Minerva would have been slaughtered having only one mobile suit pilot who frankly no matter how good you think Shinn is had ZERO chance of taking out Destroy on his own. Its just impossible with his skills and the state of the minerva who frankly couldn't have scratched destroy.

What did confuse me in the episode was what happened to all the other windams that were supporting Destroy, Chaos and Neo?

oh and as for PTX-003C that is just scary to see G-Gundam was absolutely terrible and that scene is not something I want to relate to the attempt at a love story between Shinn and Stellar.

[heero]

Originally posted by: DDBen

Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor
This is for all of you people who hate Shinn. DON'T. He is at that point in time where he questions what he is fighting for. His purpose and reasons for fighting. If Asuran has a heart to heart talk with Shinn and doesn't say something stupid they both may learn something. Shinn is a good person. He is just a good person with some mental issues. I would be a bit cocky too if eveyone around me got shot down and I had the only surviving suit. As for taking Stellar away... well it was better than just having her disected while suffering on a ship where he could only watch and do nothing to help thus breaking the promise that he made with his woman. Shinn was also justified to get mad when Cagalli started to spout her crap. To me it was even better that he shot at her.

I personally don't like Kira in this series. All he does is go into battles gun happy. Stellar's death is his fault anyways. Why you ask. HE WAS THERE THATS WHY! If Kira wasn't there then Stellar wouldn't have had to have died there.

Also Kira didn't have to stab Destroy. There are so many differtent ways that he could havehandeled that.

I'm still not positive what series your watching here in the slightest. Lets see Kira as not killed a single person in GSD and I'm sorry but you can't prove otherwise as there isn't a single example of this at all. As far as Kira could have taken out Destroy in a differn't way? What on earth are you talking about he stabbed it and that managed to take out the suit without doing killing Stellar. I still see absolutely no way she died from the injuries she sustained in the fight. My assumption is currently she is just passed out or else Shinn is carrying around a corpse for next episode. As for what Shinn is fighting for he isn't confused at all the only thing he has ever fought for is himself all he's doing is seeking revenge and killing everyone he see's.

Now as a side note Stellar just killed hundreds of thousands of people taking out 4 cities including Berlin is not something anyone no matter why has any right to be forgiven for. She didn't end the war she just made things worse and killed tons of innocent people and heck likely created a few more Shinn's to boot.

I think you are wrong about Shinn wanting to kill everyone because he was totally mad when Stellar destroyed the city and everyone in it. He just wants to kill everyone that wants to start war since it was the war that caused his family's death after all. If your loved ones died one after another I think you would be as angry as he is.

Originally posted by: darkshadow
no it was kira, he just wanted archangel to capture him, thats y you c murrue and crew standing there

o really...I dont see how Kira could of shot him with his back facing him as he flew by...

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: heero

Originally posted by: darkshadow
no it was kira, he just wanted archangel to capture him, thats y you c murrue and crew standing there

o really...I dont see how Kira could of shot him with his back facing him as he flew by...

then check it again its clearly kira who is doing it. its the same as when he flew past impusle and chopped of its arm in a flash. he did a spinn and shot neo down while spinning.

[darkshadow]

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya

Originally posted by: heero

Originally posted by: darkshadow
no it was kira, he just wanted archangel to capture him, thats y you c murrue and crew standing there

o really...I dont see how Kira could of shot him with his back facing him as he flew by...

then check it again its clearly kira who is doing it. its the same as when he flew past impusle and chopped of its arm in a flash. he did a spinn and shot neo down while spinning.

and the gotfried gun ( i think ) shoots beams that are WAAAAY bigger, and simultaniously, kira just flew down, did the spin psj said and shot neo

[heero]

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya

Originally posted by: heero

Originally posted by: darkshadow
no it was kira, he just wanted archangel to capture him, thats y you c murrue and crew standing there

o really...I dont see how Kira could of shot him with his back facing him as he flew by...

then check it again its clearly kira who is doing it. its the same as when he flew past impusle and chopped of its arm in a flash. he did a spinn and shot neo down while spinning.

oo ya i see it now

Originally posted by: Motteh

Originally posted by: heero
Destroy turned out not so great afterall since it did nothing but destroyed cities.

well if you just take a look at what the size of Destroy was
it would've been pretty useless against anything except large groups of enemies or bases/cities
just not accurate and manouverable enough to be able to find 1 on 1 against a decent suit with a decent pilot

ya and I think it could of taken out archangel and minerver if Stellar aimed at them. There's no way they could dodged those beams

[Curium]

Originally posted by: DDBen
Lets see Kira as not killed a single person in GSD and I'm sorry but you can't prove otherwise as there isn't a single example of this at all.

I'm pretty sure he has killed a few Minerva crew members. When he took out the Tannhauser it was fully charged and ready to fire so it caused a rather large explosion. Also in the episode following it looks like body bags in the background in one scene.

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
Problem is, he's leaving half the people without any means to defend themselves (thats what happened to Heine)

To be fair, Heine did not die because he was left without weapons. He died because he turned his back on Gaia. I don't know if he thought it was disabled or not, but Kira was obviously moving on (the stare down with Saviour) and not intending on continueing against Heine. Gaia on the other hand was very much a threat.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Curium

Originally posted by: DDBen
Lets see Kira as not killed a single person in GSD and I'm sorry but you can't prove otherwise as there isn't a single example of this at all.

I'm pretty sure he has killed a few Minerva crew members. When he took out the Tannhauser it was fully charged and ready to fire so it caused a rather large explosion. Also in the episode following it looks like body bags in the background in one scene.

There is absolutely no way to know if anyone was killed when Kira took out the Tannhauser as far as random techs or crew members I would have to say its VERY unlikely that anyone would be sitting around inside a active main cannon of a ship considering its a energy weapon that does not require loading and that the ship simply didn't take that much damage from it.

masamuneehs as far as your comments go lets get a few things straight here. The ArchAngel isn't fighting for either side in the current war they are simply gathering facts and preventing as many deaths as they can in the process. They specifically only stopped battles involving Orb who should be neutral and specifically Kira did so at the request of his sister. Its not like every battle Kira is running around in the middle of trying to stop it by disarming everyone. I simply don't see the ideals being shown on either side here. I believe the archangel actually intended to aid Zaft in disarming the EA so that the war could be avoided but a assassination attempt on your Girlfriend tends to make you not trust someone.

I'm sorry people but Kira is not acting the least bit selfrightous at all in GSD he is fighting specific battles for very specific reasons and is simply trying to protect his loved ones as best he can. As far as Heine goes he got himself killed end of story.

[kyubisrage]

Originally posted by: LokeXero
Sure Kira tried to stop destroy but shot down Neo beforehand. And Stellar scared, maybe quite likely actually about Freedom killing her/Neo yes, but is see more of a revenge motive for shooting down Neo as to why she flipped out after seeing Freedom after kira shot down Neo.

Whats this about "if kira didnt stop destroy shinn wouldnt be around anymore when you think about it". At no point in this episode does Kira save Shinn and more importantly all kira did was antagonise Stellar,Neo and Sting and even you have to admit that, Kira was a great cool guy end of SEED but so far in destiny hes been nothing but an annoyance that fights for his own ideals and disrupts the major players (ZAFT and EA). Maybe there wasnt anything wrong with lingering around when he wasnt needed

Destroy was attacking a ZAFT base, AA responded to the distress call but ultimately Kira and AA should have pulled out when Minerva came along, instead of staying around as they did and things wouldnt have ended as they did meaning we woudnt be having this conversation.

Ummm if it wasnt for Kira shinn would of been dead by stellars chest cannon. Kira saw stellar as a threat and took action. Also Kira wasnt going to escape after stellar calmed down. He was prob staying there just in case.

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: kyubisrage

Ummm if it wasnt for Kira shinn would of been dead by stellars chest cannon. Kira saw stellar as a threat and took action. Also Kira wasnt going to escape after stellar calmed down. He was prob staying there just in case.

there is no way to know for sure Shinn would've been killed, since it didn't happen that way
many people may not like the guy but he does have piloting skills which would've allowed him to dodge
based on the fact he pulled some fancy moves before (with and without Seed mode on)

and about Kira staying there
i think he too was dumbfounded about Shinn freezing after Neo told him it was Stellar
because the others didn't hear that and wondered why the hell Shinn wasn't doing anything after succesfully damaging Destroy before

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Motteh

Originally posted by: kyubisrage

Ummm if it wasnt for Kira shinn would of been dead by stellars chest cannon. Kira saw stellar as a threat and took action. Also Kira wasnt going to escape after stellar calmed down. He was prob staying there just in case.

there is no way to know for sure Shinn would've been killed, since it didn't happen that way
many people may not like the guy but he does have piloting skills which would've allowed him to dodge
based on the fact he pulled some fancy moves before (with and without Seed mode on)

and about Kira staying there
i think he too was dumbfounded about Shinn freezing after Neo told him it was Stellar
because the others didn't hear that and wondered why the hell Shinn wasn't doing anything after succesfully damaging Destroy before

There has been absolutely nothing done by shinn that would make me believe there is any way in hell he could have taken on Chaos, Neo and Destroy all at once as the only mobile suit. The fact is Shinn has been unable to take down ANY of them and the slash he made at destroy would have been useless. Dullindale is trying to get the people on the Minerva killed he always has been.

Reguardless of Shinns skills he has NEVER been able to slice a laser out of the sky and the only reason destroy had even bothered to turn into a mobile suit instead of fortress was because none of the weapons could do ANYTHING to Kira.

So I'm sorry but the fact is Shinn wouldn't have stood a chance 1 on 1 VS destroy even Kira needed help with that one.

Edit:

Originally posted by: Motteh
well we are talking about the sequel to Gundam Seed
so events taking place in Destiny will primarily follow the same "code of conduct" as in Seed
at least that would be the most reasonable thing to do

Another side note Kira did get killed off halfway through seed he was just picked up by lacus and for all intents and purposes to everyone in the series at that point Kira was dead. So following the same "code of conduct" as Gundam seed Shinn will come to a draw while fighting Kira and be picked up by a pink haired popstar with a nuclear gundam in her garage. I don't see them pulling identical tricks like this to often however.

[XwingRob]

These Kira VS Shinn debates are... oh so interesting!

[DDBen]

ignore this post it doesn't exist I swear

[Motteh]

don't get me wrong
i don't have anything against either Shinn or Kira
it's just that i'm getting tired of all these people who put Kira on a pedestal and cut down the legs underneath Shinn's chair at the same time

and as for my "code of conduct" comment
that wasn't intended to be taken literally
of course it would be absurd if Kira self destructed taking Shinn down so Shinn was found laying on the beach by some blind guy who takes him to plant so Shinn can wake up to a "pink haired popstar with a nuclear gundam in her garage"
and also for the viewer it became immediately clear that Kira wasn't dead in Seed
and with immediately i mean the same episode Athrun was picked up by Cagalli

[Curium]

Originally posted by: LokeXero
Sure Kira tried to stop destroy but shot down Neo beforehand. And Stellar scared, maybe quite likely actually about Freedom killing her/Neo yes, but is see more of a revenge motive for shooting down Neo as to why she flipped out after seeing Freedom after kira shot down Neo.

Whats this about "if kira didnt stop destroy shinn wouldnt be around anymore when you think about it". At no point in this episode does Kira save Shinn and more importantly all kira did was antagonise Stellar,Neo and Sting and even you have to admit that, Kira was a great cool guy end of SEED but so far in destiny hes been nothing but an annoyance that fights for his own ideals and disrupts the major players (ZAFT and EA). Maybe there wasnt anything wrong with lingering around when he wasnt needed

Destroy was attacking a ZAFT base, AA responded to the distress call but ultimately Kira and AA should have pulled out when Minerva came along, instead of staying around as they did and things wouldnt have ended as they did meaning we woudnt be having this conversation.

Are we even watching the same show??? If Kira hadn't shot Neo down (taking him out of the fight) do you really think he would have let Shinn talk her down and stop her from fighting. He may have stopped her breifly, but then Neo would talk to her and she would start back up again.

Somebody already mentioned it, but I'll repeat it anyways, Right at the end Stellar was about to fire all the chest cannons again, Shinn was just sitting there trying to talk to her. In SEED mode he MIGHT have dodged (I doubt it), but the way he was focusing on calming Stellar he wasn't in a position to do so. If Kira hadn't disabled Destroy's chest cannons he would have been blasted.

Also, when both sides in a war are wrong (though the public doesn't know about ZAFT's misdeeds yet) then they should be disrupted. Both sides are wrong, are you saying they should just sit back and let them at each other?

Destroy was acctually attacking the city of Berlin, Germany. The closest ZAFT base would be Gibralter. Besides Destroy had already wiped out 3 cities of innocent cilivilians, and would have continued to do so. It doesn't matter who showed up (unless of course it was reinforcements for the Destroy), making sure that thing was taken down had to be the priority. Besides, the Minerva only launched 1 MS (I know that is mainly Kira's fault), there is no way Kira or the Archangel could leave it to them to fight alone.

This goes back to my first point. Say they do as you suggest and fall back once the Minerva arrives. Both Sting and Neo were still fighting at that time, so it would have been them and Stellar vs Shinn. In that case Shinn may not even get a chance to find out Stellar is in Destroy. Even if he did, and Stellar acctually listened to Shinn instead of Neo, Neo could just use the programmed key words to get Stellar going again.

EDIT: Another note, the Minerva was minimally armed itself. The Tannhouser has never been repaired since Kira took it out, all it's other main weapons were taken out in the last battle (some may be repaired, but not all). It might have it's CIWS (close in weapon systems, mainly Machine Guns), but those won't do much to Destroy.

[PTX-003C]