Episode 34 (may contain SPOILERS)

[Terracosmo]

Merotz, you said that it was a bad thing to ignore subtle themes. My reply to you was only meant as a way to convey that I don't think of the "Shinn giving Stellar to Neo" scenario as a subtle theme, but rather an insane scenario.

DDBen, if your posts are what you classify as "simple words" I'm glad that I'm giving you the image of not understanding them. I think of them as utterly stupid, which is why I'm more or less making fun of you in my every reply. When I write that "Shinn doesn't like Stellar" that is not what I mean, it's my way of ridiculing your theories. But strangely you keep getting hanged up on the words I write instead of understanding the meaning. I don't know what the word for this is, but hopefully you understand.

After all, you're not unable to understand simple words like I am. [img]i/expressions/rolleye.gif[/img]

[Guardian_2000]

By your reasoning Nai, Shinn or even Rey contributed to the death of Heine. If Shinn hadn't done something like take out Freedom earlier or beaten Gaia earlier Heine wouldn't of been killed by Stellar. Not to mention Heine wouldn't of been in the position he was in if he hadn't shot at Freedom in the first place. Since he didn't like Freedom coming into the battle and just disabling everyone. Specifically Kira sorta came in and beat on his opponent moving onto the next one. Where Heine had alil bit more of a harder time with Gaia. Hurt his ego and pride alil perhaps.

Now why are you guys still bickering over this and whats the main point of the argument. Get the main point out specifically noted and it will be dealt with. No more bitching and moaning.

[Nai]

Originally posted by: Motteh
yes Kira contributed to Heine's death

Precisely.

Originally posted by: Guardian_2000[/b]
By your reasoning Nai, Shinn or even Rey contributed to the death of Heine.

Directly =! Indirectly. There's a big difference. Don't mention my reasoning if you can't even comprehend that, please.

And DDBen, you're now accusing Shinn of DROWNING Stellar?

... I'm out of here.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Nai

Originally posted by: Guardian_2000[/b]
By your reasoning Nai, Shinn or even Rey contributed to the death of Heine.

Directly =! Indirectly. There's a big difference. Don't mention my reasoning if you can't even comprehend that, please.

And DDBen, you're now accusing Shinn of DROWNING Stellar?

... I'm out of here.

No I'm accusing the writers and Animators of putting in absolutely no means that could actually cause her death. So Shinn drowning her is as good a explination as any.

[Guardian_2000]

Apparently can't take criticism of ideas and viewpoints like the rest of us. So you are saying Kira directly killed Heine? I didn't see that one. You have to pick one or the other. Did Kira indirectly or directly. Your reasoning is flawed and I can comprehend that quite easily. You want to belittle the other peoples ideas here. Get a clue your gonna have others go over yours as well. If Kira is responsible for Heine's death, Athrun, Rey, and even Shinn can be linked. Kira left Heine after preventing him from attacking Kira.

For another note: Heine was dead from the moment his character got a VA. There was no way they'd of kept such a VA for any prolonged period of time. They just can't do that. I can only imagine what they had to pay him.

[Nai]

I promise I'll be out after this one, I need sleep.

DDBen, well, Shinn slicing open the cockpick and then Kira shoving his saber into the charging cannon probably made her take some damage. Yes, I do indeed consider Shinn a direct contributor to her death. She was obviously dead before he threw her in the lake tho.

Now for Guardian_2000:

Kira directly contributed to the death of Heine, much like Shinn did to the death of Stellar. So no, obviously you have not comprehended anything at all.

Thank you.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Nai
I promise I'll be out after this one, I need sleep.

DDBen, well, Shinn slicing open the cockpick and then Kira shoving his saber into the charging cannon probably made her take some damage. Yes, I do indeed consider Shinn a direct contributor to her death. She was obviously dead before he threw her in the lake tho.

Now for Guardian_2000:

Kira directly contributed to the death of Heine, much like Shinn did to the death of Stellar. So no, obviously you have not comprehended anything at all.

Thank you.

The Shinn Drowned Stellar was NOT as serious comment in any way. I just hated the fact that they show Shinn with her out of the cockpit holding her at which point she goes "Shinn Like" then either dies or passes out its really unspecified and Shinn honestly doesn't bother to check much less give her CPR. After this Shinn wanders off tosses her in a lake not even pulling the shrapnel out of her suit. It just seemed rushed, random and uncalled for. I'm thinking more or less she suffocated from the fumes that shinn allowed in the cockpit with the hole he cut. Then he decided not to attempt to save her because she would have just ended up in the same place she was last time and thus making her suffer more was pointless.

My problem is in the end Shinn blames Kira for this when he is the one person who had absolutely nothing to do with Stellar. He disabled gaia once or twice and um yeah he stopped destroy from killing Shinn and who knows how many other people. That aside of all the possible people to blame he is the LEAST responsable for what happened.

[qilinkiddo]

Originally posted by: Nai
I promise I'll be out after this one, I need sleep.

DDBen, well, Shinn slicing open the cockpick and then Kira shoving his saber into the charging cannon probably made her take some damage. Yes, I do indeed consider Shinn a direct contributor to her death. She was obviously dead before he threw her in the lake tho.

Now for Guardian_2000:

Kira directly contributed to the death of Heine, much like Shinn did to the death of Stellar. So no, obviously you have not comprehended anything at all.

Thank you.

even if kira was contributing to heine death which was true but its indirectly...
if kira was the one who kill heine with his gun and stuff then that would be directly...

but after kira disable heine gundam...heine felt that he loses his face/pride
and feel that kira being too cocky who came to the battlefield out of sudden and disable every single gundam/mobile suit he seen...
his rage to get back to freedom that he did not notice gaia was coming from behind(correct it)
stellar using the beam sabre and killed heine from behind

its was stellar who directly kill heine...but kira who indirectly causes the death of heine

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: qilinkiddo
when he going to get his revenge on freedom

on what do you base that he was getting his revenge?
he was just floating there not moving an inch closer to Freedom

[MeroTZ]

Kira holds no blame at all for Heines death. Had Heine done the correct thing, he would have fallen back to Minerva for safety/repairs.

As for Stellar... without an autopsy (impossible due to Shinns actions) there is no way to know what killed her. Could be fumes, could be Shinns beam saber ignited the air in the cockpit and fried her lungs. Maybe it was the radiation released when Kira blew the positron cannonish things on hte chest.

One thing is for certain though. Had Shinn not exposed Stellar to the outside by cutting open Stellars cockpit, she probably would have been fine.

Kira isn't responsible for Stellars death any more than Shinn is. Just liek he's not responsible for Heines.

At least, unless we get more info on Stellars death. maybe kira did kill her, but right now, we dont know.

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: Nai

Originally posted by: Motteh
yes Kira contributed to Heine's death

Precisely.

you just choose to use from my statement what can be used to your advantage and ignore everything else right?
how pitiful

Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
Apparently can't take criticism of ideas and viewpoints like the rest of us. So you are saying Kira directly killed Heine? I didn't see that one. You have to pick one or the other. Did Kira indirectly or directly. Your reasoning is flawed and I can comprehend that quite easily. You want to belittle the other peoples ideas here. Get a clue your gonna have others go over yours as well. If Kira is responsible for Heine's death, Athrun, Rey, and even Shinn can be linked. Kira left Heine after preventing him from attacking Kira.

For another note: Heine was dead from the moment his character got a VA. There was no way they'd of kept such a VA for any prolonged period of time. They just can't do that. I can only imagine what they had to pay him.

Nai meant the =! to be a =/ i think, concluding this from what he said after that (it's a big difference)
i'm not trying to defend him totally just in this case, since i think you misunderstood him on that part
although even if i say that his statement after that (Don't mention my reasoning if you can't even comprehend that, please) doesn't make any sense at all

[Guardian_2000]

How did he directly contribute to the death of Heine? Did he push him in the way of Stellar? Did he use his newtype powers to put Heine in daze? Obviously you don't comprehend your own understanding of what directly and indirectly mean.

[PSJ]

Heine indirectly killed himself so you could say that he indirectly commited suicide by zoning out on the battlefield. He is a skilled enough pilot to get a prototype unit and being a member of Faith. He is skilled enough to not zone out on the battlefield, okey he got suprised but not enough to make him zone out.

You could link this back to Neo if you want. Neo indirectly killed Heine becuase he sent Stellar out into battle. Auel and Sting indirectly contributed becuase they were involved in stealing the Gundams.

Do you get my point?

[MeroTZ]

Originally posted by: PSJ
Heine indirectly killed himself so you could say that he indirectly commited suicide by zoning out on the battlefield. He is a skilled enough pilot to get a prototype unit and being a member of Faith. He is skilled enough to not zone out on the battlefield, okey he got suprised but not enough to make him zone out.

You could link this back to Neo if you want. Neo indirectly killed Heine becuase he sent Stellar out into battle. Auel and Sting indirectly contributed becuase they were involved in stealing the Gundams.

Do you get my point?

Exactly! The only person with any -real- responsibility for his death was Stellar. She acted specifically to kill him.

No one tried to kill Stellar. Kiras final action against her certainly endangered her life (she was very close and very exposed to a giant cannon that exploded) but it was essentialy the same as him taking hte weapon off any other suit. He acted to disarm Destroy, but never specifically to kill stellar.

[FelixZeroAlastor]

All right for all of you who want to know how Stellar died I have a theory.

Stellar fell pretty far from Destroy. I don't know how tall destroy is but I believe that when Kira blew up destroy's positron cannons, Stellar was thrust from the cockpit from that height as the cockpit combusted. Destroy was a third to a half a mile from where Shinn found Stellar. Seems to me that Stellar probably broke something pretty important which probably led to her death. All I know is that if she flew out of Destroy like I described that means that it had to be a pretty powerful explosion. If you look at the episode you will see that she had to fly out of the Destroy over all of those demolished buildings then somehow into an open area. As to why there was no blood, lazy animators or that was a really a good and crash safe suit. She probably could've lived for a little while if Shinn hadn't moved her. I'm no doctor but I was aware that you aren't supposed to move someone if they have a serious injury. Shinn picking her up like he did probably is what finally killed Stellar in the end. Thus Stellar's death is Shinn's fault. I seriously doubt that she was still alive when Shinn dropped her in the lake.

For those of you who still can't figure out how Shinn peirced Kira's Shield and Gundam, Shinn threw the first sword and put a gash in Kira's shield and then used the second sword (while moving at full speed) and trust the sword throuh the sword and the gundam. Kira though planned his escape in that very moment. As Kira was stabbed, Kira pointed his sword so that it would end up taking out the Impulses main camera, some sensors, and straight through the left side of the suit as they were engulfed by the blast. As for that explosion it was indeed the Tanhausser reacting with the water because as Talia stated herself that it would be to late once the AA submerged which is why she turned the Minerva. She knew that they would miss and braced it for impact. Kira just fled during the explosion. Why the impulse was so messed up after the smoke cleared, well Kira had to pull out his saber didn't he?

[Deblas]

Most likely she suffered from internal bleeding due to the crash from when she flew out of Destroy. Thats probably why they didn't put any cuts or blood on her. It all happened internally.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor
All right for all of you who want to know how Stellar died I have a theory.

Stellar fell pretty far from Destroy. I don't know how tall destroy is but I believe that when Kira blew up destroy's positron cannons, Stellar was thrust from the cockpit from that height as the cockpit combusted. Destroy was a third to a half a mile from where Shinn found Stellar. Seems to me that Stellar probably broke something pretty important which probably led to her death. All I know is that if she flew out of Destroy like I described that means that it had to be a pretty powerful explosion. If you look at the episode you will see that she had to fly out of the Destroy over all of those demolished buildings then somehow into an open area. As to why there was no blood, lazy animators or that was a really a good and crash safe suit. She probably could've lived for a little while if Shinn hadn't moved her. I'm no doctor but I was aware that you aren't supposed to move someone if they have a serious injury. Shinn picking her up like he did probably is what finally killed Stellar in the end. Thus Stellar's death is Shinn's fault. I seriously doubt that she was still alive when Shinn dropped her in the lake.

For those of you who still can't figure out how Shinn peirced Kira's Shield and Gundam, Shinn threw the first sword and put a gash in Kira's shield and then used the second sword (while moving at full speed) and trust the sword throuh the sword and the gundam. Kira though planned his escape in that very moment. As Kira was stabbed, Kira pointed his sword so that it would end up taking out the Impulses main camera, some sensors, and straight through the left side of the suit as they were engulfed by the blast. As for that explosion it was indeed the Tanhausser reacting with the water because as Talia stated herself that it would be to late once the AA submerged which is why she turned the Minerva. She knew that they would miss and braced it for impact. Kira just fled during the explosion. Why the impulse was so messed up after the smoke cleared, well Kira had to pull out his saber didn't he?

Um do show me where she fell out of Destroy its as good a theory as any don't get me wrong here. I just have placed Shinn as atleast having enough dignity to have gotten her out of the wreckage on his own. Then again if she actually went anywhere near the distance your claiming I find it hard to believe the shrapnel didn't get dug into her skin much less the fact she wasn't more noteably injured with something like a broken neck.

Definate points though on noticing the gash in the shield from the beam boomarang weather or not that kind of damage makes sense from that particular weapon but you are 100% correct it caused the gash that allowed Shinn to penitraight the shield good catch.

P.S. If you actually believe Shinn Drowns Stellar you are a dumbass I simply stated it to reinforce the fact we have no idea how she died. Also note due to someone dumping the body in a lake we never will.

Edit

Originally posted by: Ahirman
And as this is my first post, I shall strive to go back on topic in terms of Heine's death. Yes Kira is at fault, indirectly. This cannot be refuted. Taking out all of Heine's weapons in one blow left him defenceless. However, being in FAITH would show he is skilled enough to recover from such a thing. Floating around in the air and watching the foe who ripped you isn't the smartest thing to do, especially on a battlefield. Verdict: Heine dropped the ball there for sure. He did a mistake I would expect a rookie to make but he's not completely at fault.

Do realise that Stellar wasn't even aiming for Heine at all he litterally floated in the way of her blindly attacking freedom. His death wasn't even planned out by the one who killed him he just made the most retarded move I have ever witnessed by floating around aimlessly and ignoring the early warning device that tell you when a mobile suit is approaching and in this case it got him killed.

[FelixZeroAlastor]

Originally posted by: DDBen

Um do show me where she fell out of Destroy its as good a theory as any don't get me wrong here. I just have placed Shinn as atleast having enough dignity to have gotten her out of the wreckage on his own. Then again if she actually went anywhere near the distance your claiming I find it hard to believe the shrapnel didn't get dug into her skin much less the fact she wasn't more noteably injured with something like a broken neck.

Definate points though on noticing the gash in the shield from the beam boomarang weather or not that kind of damage makes sense from that particular weapon but you are 100% correct it caused the gash that allowed Shinn to penitraight the shield good catch.

P.S. If you actually believe Shinn Drowns Stellar you are a dumbass I simply stated it to reinforce the fact we have no idea how she died. Also note due to someone dumping the body in a lake we never will.

Shinn didn't get her out of that wreckage I think. If you look at the scene you will then realize that Destroy is way to far from that "open area" that Shinn was sitting at. If he did he would have had to fly the impulse on top of the destroy, remove Stellar, get back in the impuse, search for an open area, land, and finally walk about twenty feet from his gundam to prepare for their "dramatic scene". Doesn't really make much sense if you ask me. As to why nothing was broken, there was some broken stuff you just couldn't tell because the animators are getting lazy and starting to rush.

My final theory for Stellars death is that first off Stellar had already taken out three cities nonstop and was well overdue for some rest in her dome thingie. My guess is with the lack of drugs and emotional stress her body finally gave out. It had nothing to do with injuries. It was just a lack of drugs. Thus it is no ones fault that she died. She was screwed anyway you look at it so lets just get over this.

Thanks for the points. I am now going analyzing every episode so that I don't post random things and sound like an baka from now on. I thank you DDBen for enlightening me.

P.S. I didn't belive that Shinn drowning Stellar thing. I just stated it cause it sounded like some were starting to believe it.

Accually Shinn probably did get her out of that wrekage but if he didn't have enough sense to try CPR or steal a deflibulator from the Minerva then I wouldn't put it past him to just find her amongst the destruction that she so rought down upon that innocent city. Yeah I like the second part of my sentence better.

[Terracosmo]

#2 isn't confirmed though [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[ch4kz]

Kira is not at fault for Heine...he is however for stellar...he did finish the job, even though Shinn may have helped him out a bit.

If Shinn never tore the armour open. Shinn may have not beleived Neo that it was Stellar inside. .So she would have ended up dieing anyway.