Phase 42 discussion

[Curium]

Originally posted by: alukard
Athrun owned Kira when they're both in seed mode.

This never happened. There has only been 1 fight between Athrun and Kira when Athrun went SEED, that was the final fight between Strike and Aegis. The fight was a draw, neither owned the other.

Coordinators > Naturals because they have seed mode

Naturals can have SEED mode as well. Cagalli is proof of that.

There's no such thing as a hybrid Mirage Colloid. You either see the thing or you dont and you could clearly see Destiny and its moving at a faster speed than any gundam, hence the afterimage when its moving.

"and "Hikari no Tsubasa" ("Wings of Light") beam wings that are used as a propulsion system, enabling the Destiny to move at very high speeds. In conjunction with a form of Mirage Colloid technology, this system causes the Destiny to leave a trail of visible after-images that can confuse enemy sensors. "

^Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZGMF-X42S_Destiny_Gundam

Of course Kira in SEED mode is probably better then any sensors.

Having nuclear power isnt everything. It doesnt make your suit better. It doesnt make it faster.

It can make it go faster because it allows more power to be used for thruster output without fear of running out of power.

but in this day and age technology is advanced and new-type is an obsolete ability.

This shows a complete lack of understanding what a new-type is. The best way I can think of to sum it up breifly is that a new-type can pretty much exist sybiotically with machines. They can instinctivly know what they do and control them beyond any normal person's ability regardless of experience. Also it allows limited amounts of being able to see the future so you can aim where the enemy will be when the shot gets there, not where they are when you shoot.


[*]A note from the above Destiny submission on Wiki,

"Shinn was eventually ordered to retreat due to having lost several weapons and his hyper capacitor running low on energy."

"The Destiny is powered by a "hyper-deuterion" reactor, which is a nuclear reactor that incorporates a derivative of deuterion beam technology for currently unknown purposes, and includes a hyper capacitor system that is likely used to temporarily increase the system's power output."

After reading this, it may be that Destiny has a true nuclear reactor, but the Deuterion system allows it to funnel the power more efficiently resulting in increased power output for speed and fire-power. Destiny probably could have continued fighting, but it would have been at greatly reduced capacity (Zero chance against SF at anything less then full power).

EDIT: More from Wiki

Hyper-Deuterion Nuclear Reactor
The hyper-deuterion nuclear reactor is a hybrid system created by ZAFT which combines a nuclear fission reactor with a deuterion beam system. The mechanics of this system are unknown, but hyper-deuterion reactors are more powerful and efficient than conventional fission reactors, but require a hyper capacitor battery and recharging, which effectively makes it having a shorter operation time. The hyper-deuterion reactor is currently used by the ZGMF-X42S Destiny and ZGMF-X666S Legend The "G.U.N.D.A.M" acronym for mobile suits with a hyper-deuterion nuclear reactor is Gunnery United Nuclear-Deuterion Advanced Maneuver.

[alukard]

This shows a complete lack of understanding what a new-type is. The best way I can think of to sum it up breifly is that a new-type can pretty much exist sybiotically with machines. They can instinctivly know what they do and control them beyond any normal person's ability regardless of experience. Also it allows limited amounts of being able to see the future so you can aim where the enemy will be when the shot gets there, not where they are when you shoot.

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This shows a complete lack of respect and a complete understanding of only one's own opinion. Sorry but your opinion does not make it a fact. New-type is a precognition not a some kind of god like ability. There's already an ability like that. Its called berzerker mode/seed. Look it up sometimes. Watch the original Gundam seed.

If that were true then Mu would have been able to kill alot of people when he has it. He and Raww both had it and they were never able to do anything besides recognizing each other and werent able to pilot their suits as much nor owned alot of MS, and Raww was > than Mu even though they both have it. Kira owned Raww and when they fought neither of them used new-type ability nor needed it. Raww put up a good fight and in fact was owning Kira up until the last second when he was overpowered and outgunned. It doesnt stay up all the time like seed when you're in battle. If you can see the future then why didnt Raww see his imminent death and avoid a fellow coordinator. Its didnt help Raww at all and yet he used the Dragoon system very well despite being a supreme commander and spending his whole time on his ship. He only used new-type when he saw Mu whom he hated. He knew by rivalry that the person coming for him was up to no good. However it was always a draw because they both were good pilots not because they have new-type ability. They didnt shoot more accurately. Raww didnt dodge better than other coordinators and you have to remember that Raww was a coordinator and Mu isnt but yet they were always in a draw when fighting each other. Even Kira had alot of trouble when faced against Raww but yet Kira has seed mode on and all Raww had were his Dragoons, like Mu's MA except that its a MS so it could do alot more (who later pilots the skygrasper to fight Raww until he took over the Strike) . Mu didnt become as good as Kira all of a sudden and can take down Raww's goons as good as Kira can and stop Athrun, Dearka, and Yzak from stealing the gundams. It accomplished absolutely nothing. It did prove something though and that is that it all comes down to the pilot and Raww wasn't even an ultimate coordinator nor used Seed mode when he faced Kira, an ultimate coordinator.

Its different when Kira used it. However the results were the same. Kira could plot enemies with his meteor with or without Seed mode using his navi system. He could aim for flying projectiles aimed at his mothership. He proved his accuracy in battle many times by disabling pilots without killing them. He could easily stop those Goufs with or without the new-type. They were very close to him and not a target a mile away and he has shot down Minerva's Scylla cannon from a mile away with deadly precision even without seed mode even without having to predict where the ship is or will be and the Minerva was constantly evading AA and moving rapidly through a large cloud of debris and eye-blinding flashes of beams. Im sorry but you got 4 Goufs that are wrapped around you and if you need new-type ability to have to predict where they are and aim for them then you mustn't be piloting a billion dollar worth piece of hi-technology. New-type doesnt do that. It just gives Kira a sense of security knowing that what he does is the right thing to do by disabling fellow coordinators whom he knows are just doing what they're ordered to do but not worth killing them.

As for naturals having seed mode, Cagalli is an exception not a rule. She is afterall a twin of Kira, an ultimate coordinator, even if she is not born from a test tube and grown in a perfect environment. Genes and environments are two aspects that are important to a perfect coordinator. Kira has both. Cagalli was grown in a loving family as well and she has the same genes as Kira except for being born without her parents having to go through gene therapy.

[Splash!]

SEED has nothing to do with being a coordinator or not so why not just leave it at that alukard. Its not that cagalli is some exception to the rule.
@alukard: Being a newtype is not a useless ability. While it dusn make u the God on the battlefield automatically , it does definitely help alot in helping you own. After all we can all agree that Rau owned much more than regular coordinators, just as Mwu was much more than regular naturals. Hence, Kira being the ultimate coordinator with SEED mode and the newtype abilities==== add that together and it pretty much means hes something BIG!

[MrTicTac]

bout Cagalli, coordinator SEED stuff,, wat makes a coordinator a coordinator is that their genes are altered, sooo cagalli is a natural,, doesnt matter where they grew up etc etc

soo saying only coordinators can have SEED mode is incorrect, twin sister etc etc cagalli isnt a coordinator


and since the word newtype has never come up in any dialogue in SEED or Destiny,, I dont think it should count,, Mwu and that other dude may not even be newtypes,, did either ever sense Kira ? (if were saying newtype flash makes someone a newtype) Mwu could be like the Frost Bros where both can only sense each other



I dont think Curium is saying newtypes are super gods that kill all, he's saying wat is generally the definition of a newtype in Mobil Suit Gundam, Gundam X etc etc, NOT gundam seed since they never say newtype

and newtypes just have visions or dreams and feel other people's emotions (so instinct would tell them where to shoot etc) and this is not always correct of course, visions of the future in Gundam X didnt always come true

[alukard]

Coordinators > Naturals because they have seed mode and even when they arent they've already acquired all their knowledge of battle tactics that they learned while in they're berserked and lived to fight again. Berserk= Berserk.

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From this line alot of people are saying that coordinators and seed mode is linked. Some says its not. All i said was that coordinators are better than naturals because they have seed mode. Most of them have it and more so than naturals. How many naturals besides Cagalli has it? You might find one natural with seed mode but you wont have to look very hard to see that coordinators outnumber naturals by a ratio of many to one. This is true because their genes were spliced to find the right genes that made them advantageous. This was what started the war on Earth. Its only a matter of time before they find the seed gene and since coordinators have the certain genes that makes them more in-tuned to certain tasks they'll eventually wont even find any difference between seed mode and non-seed mode because they'll find the right combination of genes to flip it on indefinitely. Kira was partial proof of that. He had no problem working the mechanics of a mobile suit despite his only experience being that he worked with his professor as a first year technical student near a well funded top secret weapons facility. In a minute tops he was able to reconfigure the OS of a never weapon he has never worked with before. He was battle ready and blood rushed when he saw a gear approached him. Seed stands for Superior evolutionary something something. In my view, Cagalli's only difference is that her parents didnt have to go through gene therapy like Dulindal and Captain Gladys to tell them that they should or should not marry. Cagalli and Kira are practically twins except Kira had his genes enhanced further.

There are other ways to acquire seeds besides being a coordinator, and there are other genes besides Seed, but most coordinators have seed and most coordinators are better than naturals. You cant say only roses have thorns and all roses are red but you can say all roses have thorns and all roses can be cut down because people can still see through its outer beauty and innocence and its need to protect itself with thorns from hands of people and things because people are indiscriminating and shallow like that.

[Vega]

About the whole Newtype flash thing:

A lot of people have mentioned that the word newtype has never been mentioned in Seed and Destiny. Also, we all know about Gundam series loving to re-use their animations over and over and over again. During Gundam SEED I always assumed they just used the newtype flash from the earlier gundam series' with Mwu and Kruze to show their long distance recognition of each other, possibly because one was a clone of the other's father and they had an intuitive feeling about being so close to someone so genetically similar.

(I'm just saying I don't think the flash means that they are 'newtypes' at all, and sorry, I couldn't think of any reason why Kira should have a flash...)

[Wizard054]

If it was a beam, it'd be over...
Meaning...if Shinn was using your typical beam saber, there's no way Freedom could've palmed it.

[NeoBear]

Originally posted by: Wizard054
If it was a beam, it'd be over...
Meaning...if Shinn was using your typical beam saber, there's no way Freedom could've palmed it.

? um you dont seem to be on the same wave lenth as the rest of us, shinn was admiting at that moment that if kira had used a beam weapon it would have been over, or in other words that kira just pulled some pimp shit on him.

side note anybody else notice that kira dont talk much anymore when he figts, wich is cool with me some of the shit they say while fighting is lame as hell

Gundam A: why are you doing this!!!!

Gundam B: the world is a cow and the milk has gone bad to prevent these things from taking place we must fight that way i can know im alive, also i have to take a shit and they wont let me go back till i beat you

Gundam A: if indeed the world is a cow then i will be lowfat milk GHAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

Gundam B: then you are doomed to repeat the cow milking you people dont understand how we have sufferd GHAAAAAAA!!!!!

i mean are you kidding me why can they even hear each other in the first place lol

[Curium]

Originally posted by: MrTicTac
and since the word newtype has never come up in any dialogue in SEED or Destiny,, I dont think it should count,, Mwu and that other dude may not even be newtypes,, did either ever sense Kira ? (if were saying newtype flash makes someone a newtype) Mwu could be like the Frost Bros where both can only sense each other

At the end of SEED after Mwu died Rau did sense Kira coming for him.

I dont think Curium is saying newtypes are super gods that kill all, he's saying wat is generally the definition of a newtype in Mobil Suit Gundam, Gundam X etc etc, NOT gundam seed since they never say newtype

Thanks. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I suck at communication.

Originally posted by: Wizard054
If it was a beam, it'd be over...
Meaning...if Shinn was using your typical beam saber, there's no way Freedom could've palmed it.

What? The way this is worded sounds like you are implying that Shinn thought he would have won if his sword was all Beam? If I'm misunderstanding what you wrote I'm sorry, but Shinn was refering to SFs Rail Guns not being beams.

[Wizard054]

Originally posted by: Curium

What? The way this is worded sounds like you are implying that Shinn thought he would have won if his sword was all Beam? If I'm misunderstanding what you wrote I'm sorry, but Shinn was refering to SFs Rail Guns not being beams.[/quote]

I stand corrected...
I am humbled by everyone's insight on the matter...
=)