Phase 49 Discussion

[coud656]

True that GSD is a slightly above Anime but I still can't stand the amount of reused footage they used even judging by the epi 50 extended preview...it looks like its just some reused footage of the orb battle which really pisses me off since its the finale of the series and yeah spinoffs are rarely as good but Full Metal Panic definately gets better...especially Fumoffu XD

[masamuneehs]

Originally posted by: Kovash
For the sake of this post, I will assume that Mwu remained dead and Neo is someone else entirely.


For all those people bitching about how bad GSD is... for gods sake, think about how bad it COULD be - we can all name atleast 20 anime's we've hated a LOT more than GSD, if only because the characters were shallow and the plotlines meaningless.

GSD is a higher than standard Anime, it just can't compare to it's original series (spin offs are rarely as good as their parent series.)

I still like GSD a lot, there's just one issue I refuse to acknowledge because it would send me into a rage, possibly destroying my computer inthe process.

Oh Kovash, are you really going to hide behind that delusion? Just come to accept the cheese that is GSD. Learn to submit to the Dark Side and kneel before Emperor Fukuda, bringer of all evil, defiler of great anime franchises!

Spin-offs shouldn't be attempted if there's nothing to elaborate on in the original. Making garbage just to make money is still producing garbage, no matter how nice the animation looks...

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Kovash
For the sake of this post, I will assume that Mwu remained dead and Neo is someone else entirely.


For all those people bitching about how bad GSD is... for gods sake, think about how bad it COULD be - we can all name atleast 20 anime's we've hated a LOT more than GSD, if only because the characters were shallow and the plotlines meaningless.

GSD is a higher than standard Anime, it just can't compare to it's original series (spin offs are rarely as good as their parent series.)

I still like GSD a lot, there's just one issue I refuse to acknowledge because it would send me into a rage, possibly destroying my computer inthe process.

Seriously there are issues with your statement. You see without seed every character would be hollow and plotless in GSD. I mean so far I don't care about any GSD characters and the ones I find myself caring about at all were all developed in Seed and not Destiny. Unfortunately GSD is filled with Shallow characters and meaningless plotlines with one simple goal... Sell as many models as possibe.

[Kovash]

For the sake of this post, I will assume that Mwu remained dead and Neo is someone else entirely.

Originally posted by: DDBen
You see without seed every character would be hollow and plotless in GSD.

This is EXACTLY what I am talking about - when you anaylse Destiny, you cannot discount SEED, you see, Destiny is a continuation of SEED not an entirely new series about something completely different. If there are characters in the original series (SEED) that have developed as far as they can go, then they don't NEED to be developed more in Destiny.

The problem seems to be arising where people are drawing a definitive line between the two seasons, which you can't do, because it's all one big story.

Originally posted by: DDBen
I don't care about any GSD characters and the ones I find myself caring about at all were all developed in Seed and not Destiny. Unfortunately GSD is filled with Shallow characters and meaningless plotlines with one simple goal... Sell as many models as possibe.

- GSD characters are not shallow, not at all - each and every character (from Shinn to Meer) is fully developed and realised, we even have the return of two characters from the previous season who, due to circumstances between the seasons, have becomes confused about their purpose which they agonised over in the first season.

- GSD is well written, the dialouge is the masterwork you'd expect form Fukada and the art leaves little to be asked for. There are scenes reused, perhaps to save on time, perhaps to save on money, who knows? So long as we all understand what is happening, it doens't matter if the entire episode is constructed from clips of previous episodes, because it still gets its own message accross.



Having said that, I fully admit that Destiny does not live up to the potential of SEED, not by a long shot, but remember that SEED was a phenominal Anime, blowing everything else almost entirely out of the water, compared to it Destiny it's meal scrapings - but if we compare it to everything else, Destiny is still well above standard, it's an excelent anime and that will never change.



EDIT: About reused footage - SEED did it as well, I didn't see anyone complaining then? It seems that people have a beef against Destiny and are just nit-picking, which is never productive.

[ChaosK]

i say the reason GSD has very little character development besides for neo/mwu and shinn is because everybody else has already been developed in seed or has nowhere to go.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Kovash
- GSD characters are not shallow, not at all - each and every character (from Shinn to Meer) is fully developed and realised, we even have the return of two characters from the previous season who, due to circumstances between the seasons, have becomes confused about their purpose which they agonised over in the first season.

- GSD is well written, the dialouge is the masterwork you'd expect form Fukada and the art leaves little to be asked for. There are scenes reused, perhaps to save on time, perhaps to save on money, who knows? So long as we all understand what is happening, it doens't matter if the entire episode is constructed from clips of previous episodes, because it still gets its own message accross..

um what your missing is that the majority of developement in GSD is exactly the same.

We have Neo who has developed exactly like Mwu did in GS. Even considering both are differn't people which is completely untrue. Lets see Mwu came in was fighting the same enemy as the AA. In GS it was Raul and the stolden gundams and in GSD its Rey and the Minerva with the stolden Gundams. In both cases they eventually end up on the AA and end up joining them . In both cases they even have the chance to leave the AA and decide to go back to save them. In both cases they block a positron blast in space with there MS in a attempt to save the AA.

Given Mwu/Neo and Raul/Rey switched a few details between them add the characters together and you have IDENTICAL developement to GS. Yes for the first half of the series they had there roles reversed but there is nothing new in EITHER of these characters.

Meer was something kind of new but in the end she was virtually ignored only making cameo's and completely wasting episode 47 for all her trouble.

Shinn has been on instant replay over the ENTIRE series. First a loved one dies. Then he angsts a lot about there death. He find someone new and essentially forgets about who died before. Then the new person dies and we start over. This has been done 3 times during GSD. With his sister then stellar and now with Luna Maria. Maybe this time he will do something differn't but so far Shinn has managed essentially no developement. His emotions at this point and his hesitation simply mirrors what he did when he gave Stellar back to Neo its not anything new. Even if at this point he decides not to let Lunamaria die on his own and blame someone else he still accomplished nothing.

Dullindale and Djibril are both token bad guys there is really nothing new to be found in either of them..

Beyond that the majority of other characters are just token one like Heine and the druggies. Stellar was nothing but a mindwiped retard and that never changed even when she died there was nobody home. and if they were not Token characters they either repeated there GS developement like Athrun and Calgari or they simply didn't develope at all like Lacus and Kira.

[AtHRunOwNZaLL]

Originally posted by: Kovash
The problem seems to be arising where people are drawing a definitive line between the two seasons, which you can't do, because it's all one big story.

i'm starting to see what your talking about, instead of thinking of this as 2 series or 2 seasons just think of it as 1 whole series and think that episode 50 wasn't the last episode and gundam seed was still continuing except it jumped to 2 years later, now that i think about this i don't think the old seed characters need any character development anymore

[AtHRunOwNZaLL]

Originally posted by: Kovash
- GSD is well written, the dialouge is the masterwork you'd expect form Fukada and the art leaves little to be asked for. There are scenes reused, perhaps to save on time, perhaps to save on money, who knows? So long as we all understand what is happening, it doens't matter if the entire episode is constructed from clips of previous episodes, because it still gets its own message accross.
Having said that, I fully admit that Destiny does not live up to the potential of SEED, not by a long shot, but remember that SEED was a phenominal Anime, blowing everything else almost entirely out of the water, compared to it Destiny it's meal scrapings - but if we compare it to everything else, Destiny is still well above standard, it's an excelent anime and that will never change.

totally agree with you on this, gsd rules but not as much as seed but it still rules

EDIT: crap, sorry for the double post T_T

[SFreedomZGMFx20a]

Hey, be careful man.

Tomorrow is going to be aired Phase 50 [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]. Finally!!!

SEED-Fansubs' Phase 49 - Rey

[Kovash]

Originally posted by: DDBen
um what your missing is that the majority of developement in GSD is exactly the same.

We have Neo who has developed exactly like Mwu did in GS. Even considering both are differn't people which is completely untrue. Lets see Mwu came in was fighting the same enemy as the AA. In GS it was Raul and the stolden gundams and in GSD its Rey and the Minerva with the stolden Gundams. In both cases they eventually end up on the AA and end up joining them . In both cases they even have the chance to leave the AA and decide to go back to save them. In both cases they block a positron blast in space with there MS in a attempt to save the AA.

Given Mwu/Neo and Raul/Rey switched a few details between them add the characters together and you have IDENTICAL developement to GS. Yes for the first half of the series they had there roles reversed but there is nothing new in EITHER of these characters.

Neo is different enough, while we can draw paralels between the roles of characters in SEED and Destiny, ultimately, each character is still a unique character and develops on their own. You see, to have a stroy you need a few things;

Structure - Beginning-Middle-End, esentually, a setting, and obsitcal that needs to be surmounted, and a denoument.

Antagonist - A 'bad guy' either character or institution, the Antagonist gets in the way of the main characters, creating new obsticales to be surmounted on their journey to solve the original problem.

Protagonist - A focus for the story, either a single person or a group, these ar the people to surmount their problems.

Now, out of the billion and one variable possibilities, no one idea we have now is going to be compeltely unique - besides, making parallels between two characters (either in the same stroy, or just well known figures) is a device often used to create character without having to waste time focusing on them for the length of time nessecary. This allows focus on the Protagonists or the story itself.

Originally posted by: DDBen
Meer was something kind of new but in the end she was virtually ignored only making cameo's and completely wasting episode 47 for all her trouble.

Meer was a crucial part of the stroyline, and despite how little screen time she got to herself, without her, the War effort would have been a lot harder on Dillundal - she is a pivotal character, even for just beign a pawn. You need to tihnk outside the box of the series and understand that Fukada has made a world, not a bunch of mindless robots dancing on screen.

Originally posted by: DDBen
Shinn has been on instant replay over the ENTIRE series. First a loved one dies. Then he angsts a lot about there death. He find someone new and essentially forgets about who died before. Then the new person dies and we start over. This has been done 3 times during GSD. With his sister then stellar and now with Luna Maria. Maybe this time he will do something differn't but so far Shinn has managed essentially no developement. His emotions at this point and his hesitation simply mirrors what he did when he gave Stellar back to Neo its not anything new. Even if at this point he decides not to let Lunamaria die on his own and blame someone else he still accomplished nothing.

I'd like to see you shrug off the effect of seeing your entire family being blown up right infront of you. Shinn is agsty for a reason, mainly because he won't let go of the memory, which is why he carries around his sister's phone. Shinn is a real, broken person who only has his life in the military to fall back on when his personal life is in shambles - he's not a mindlewss pawn, however, he has a strong sense of will and the only reason Dillundal has controlled him thus far is by letting him do wahtever he wants, and having someone close to him to constatly remind him of his past agony. Which is exactly waht Rey has been doing, if you've noticed.

Originally posted by: DDBen
Dullindale and Djibril are both token bad guys there is really nothing new to be found in either of them.

Token, shmoken - an antagonist is an antagonist, most are virtually the same which is a problem difficult to avoid; but Dillundal and Djibril both have extremely important roles in the series outside of their mechanical roles - remember Gundam SEED is a world and not just a cartoon.

Originally posted by: DDBen
Beyond that the majority of other characters are just token one like Heine and the druggies. Stellar was nothing but a mindwiped retard and that never changed even when she died there was nobody home. and if they were not Token characters they either repeated there GS developement like Athrun and Calgari or they simply didn't develope at all like Lacus and Kira.

Heine was a device, yes, but his impact on Athrun still echoes, Hiene is't forgotten yet.

Stellar didn't develop far mainly because of her position in the story - beign mind wiped every 5 minutes tends to prevent people from excelling at personal development. However, Stellar still had a crucial effect on Shinn and played as Neo's conscience, he only ever questioned his orders when thinking sentimentally about her, Sting and Auel.

Athrun and Cagali were put into difficult positions during the intermission - in Cagali's case, she spent the entirety of SEED knowing exactly waht she wanted and where she was going, and she faught harder then most to get there. Now she has been placed into a role she was never really suited for in SEED and she's learning but still letting her hot head get her into trouble; she wasn't confused, really, just intimidated by Dillundal's cool facade but ultimately she made her choice the same way she always has, by relying on her desire to protect her people - which has made her into the strong leader she is now (it does help, though, that the people of Orb trust her).

Athrun was given a delema in SEED, forcing him to face the true nature of his father and i nthe end, he chose to fight for waht he believed in, his friends. Nowi n Destiny he made the same choice, though it led him somewhere different, back into the hands of ZAFT. His desire to protect Cagali and his friends from a shrouded threat forced him to seek power wherever he could get it (since Lacus taught both he and Kira that neither power or desire will get you where you want to go, you need both) and the best way to put himself into a position to help was to accept Dillundal's offer. Athrun then benifeited from the perspective of another side, and he accepted Dillundal's methods because they seemed the most prudent, though Heine came along and events unfurled that again made Athrun question his loyalty and ultiamtely, made the same decision he made in SEED.

Neither were hit by a giant reset switch, they both developed how they should have.

Kira has been a ball of emotional instability and his development in SEED made him certain what he wanted and willful. Lacus did not really develop, but she assited i nthe development of practically every other character, which earns her pleny of brownie points - because of the way they developed in SEED, neither Lacus or Kira were in a position to question their choices so they have remained virtually the same, which isn't bad becuase they have gotten as far as they were going to go - unlike Cagali and Athrun who still had questions.



About Mwu and Neo: I'm still pissed about what happened to Mwu, bringing him back is a crime that would have only been overshadowed if Kira turned into a crybaby again. Mwu deserved his dignified, heoric death and now his reputation is suffering undser the black thumb of Neo. Don't forget like everyone in the seires has conviniently - Neo used three children as war machines and manipulated them to do as he wished, he still cared for them, but Neo didn't choose to end his life of nastiness, he was captured then bombarded with ghosts of his past which have reset his morality, I would only be happy if we see him crying in the last episode, lamenting what he had done.

Murre deserves better.

[blightian]

all the thing about GSD sucking is finally covered up by this episode. we finally got the bigger picture of the 2 series being together as one.

now that i think of it, i don't think the series is that bad afterall. its just like part two of any other manga. be it Flame of recca or naruto.

though GSD isn't as impressive as GS in terms of plot, i find the whole show rather acceptable now =D

[Board of Command]

Neo Genesis...who would have ever guessed??

For some reason the Dulindal scene had a Star Wars feel to it. He was sitting there like Palpatine and Shinn is Darth Vader. If you think about it, Shinn is virtually a carbon copy of Anakin Skywalker. Although Rey is an actual character, his role is more like the little devil on Shinn's shoulder telling him that he's doing the right thing and Athrun is like the angel (Obi-Wan) and gets overpowered by the devil (Palpatine).

Hmm episode 49 sure had a lot of subtle elements to it.

[Nai]

Finally got around to watching this and I have to say that Lacus is just getting fucking embarrassing.

Let's take her statement about Dullindal's "world of death." How the fuck does the Destiny Plan even begin to promote a world of death? It basically just gives every person their rightful place in the world and makes sure they use their talents to their full extent. Personally, I don't even see what the fuck is so bad with it in the first place. I guess she's just trying to be melodramatic, as usual.

Then, let's take the fact that each and every time Kira and Asuran doubts she pulls up some recycled piece of shit speech which always ends with "... but we have to fight." And they, like two mindless puppets simply nods. Which isn't surprising for Kira, but I thought Asuran would have more cahones than that. Her "cute yet determined" look also disgusts me to no end. And what's this hypocritical shit about super weapons? She bitches about Requiem and how no one should have such weapons, yet she arms SF and IJ with fucking METEORS in order to destroy it and the defending ZAFT fleet ( ... apparently someones no-kill policy has been adjusted slightly ). I have no doubt she would have just used Requiem if she could have.

Anyway, I digress. The few saving scenes in this episode were the ones with Rey in them. His speech was simply beautiful and rang so true. He really managed to get to Shinn with each and every word, and I have to respect such a silver tongue. Rey is awesome. As is Dullindal.

Yzak... well, let's just say that Fukuda has managed to make me lose all respect for Yzak. He's still hot, but what the fuck was up with that. A major betraying his fleet in the middle of combat like it was nothing? I was so totally expecting him to go out and fight too. But of course not. Fuck that.

Anyway, I'd probably call this the worst episode of Destiny if not for Rey. Hm, I wonder if I should even bother bitching about how Mwu reflected the Minerva's super weapon with very little effort. Nah, I'll just leave it like this.

Originally posted by: BOARD_of_command
For some reason the Dulindal scene had a Star Wars feel to it.

Well, the man has his very own death star.

[Board of Command]

Originally posted by: Nai
Let's take her statement about Dullindal's "world of death." How the fuck does the Destiny Plan even begin to promote a world of death? It basically just gives every person their rightful place in the world and makes sure they use their talents to their full extent. Personally, I don't even see what the fuck is so bad with it in the first place. I guess she's just trying to be melodramatic, as usual.

It's not really a world of death, it's communism...which doesn't work.

[SFreedomZGMFx20a]

Is called a world of death, because in order to create it Dullindal would order the death of millions of human beings, ORB was one of the countries he was going to destroy. Plus humans arent so obedient, most of them would just obey Dullindal and the rest would be killed.

[Board of Command]

In that case it's not a world of death, it's a world built upon death.

[Kovash]

Originally posted by: BOARD_of_command
In that case it's not a world of death, it's a world built upon death.

*blinks*

Oh, for pete's sake...

[Board of Command]

What? They're very different things.