I actually work for a few days, and miss out on a good three pages.
Shit.
The quoted lines are in no particular order, as I had to move some portions of this post around to accomodate my statements. So don't be surprised if a quote of yours is somehow mixed in cohorts with a later one of yours, or vice-versa. I had a lot to cover, so bear with me and cut a beaner some slack.
With that disclaimer out of the way, let's get the show on the road. It's been a long time ..
@ Jadugar: Jared never voted. Scoreboard's been updated, and reflects that accordingly. Hit me up if there's a mistake.
Most of your statements sound well and dandy for fan-fiction, which I wouldn't mind perusing or even in-depthly reading, given the writing talent.Originally posted by: vasco
(Insert here a million posts I've missed out on, and won't dare quote due to fatigue from reading or carelessness.)
However, against these guys your statements don't hold much weight. You need supporting evidence - not mock battles, which is tainted by your own biased opinion.
Certain things like you're not considering the Curse Seal at Level 2, or it doesn't matter, doesn't help support your argument, since that's the main thing Sasuke's got going for him. And, that Neji would kill him if this or that. No if's. Hit these people with the facts as to why Neji's better.
I'm loving your enthusiasm, though. Seriously.
He's not a contender in this bout, but I'd vote for him too, otherwise.Originally posted by: darkmetal505
As for my vote: Rock Lee all the way!
As slow as we have seen this done, I honestly believe the majority of that is fluff.Originally posted by: XanBcoo
Neji must go into his stance and then launch the attack.
He held a brief conversation with Kidoumaru while in the stance. In all that time, Kidoumaru was helpless to defend himself. Allegedly, and in the manner it was shown. I find all of that a bit hard to swallow.
Originally posted by: Mut@chi
There's always a big chance that if Sasuke is somehow hit by Neji's hakke attack, he can always recover and fight back just like Naruto did. Neji relying on his main attack to disable someone who has so much chakra is too iffy for me to say that it's reliable and enough to beat Sasuke.Our million dollar winner.Originally posted by: heero
Thats not exactly true. In the fight between Neji and Kidomaru, Kidomaru said it himself that he was scared he might be hit from Neji's attack because it can stop his chakra flow. Also, I remember Sasuke saying that the seal just releases his chakra to his full potential. Never said it gives him another chakra flow. Otherwise it wouldnt hurt him at all to use it.
Sasuke did not outlast Naruto because he had more chakra. He outlasted our number one surprise ninja because Sasuke actually hit Naruto with his signature power move. With all the pain Sasuke was already in from simply transgressing to that state of the Level 2 Curse Seal, I doubt there'd be much of him had Rasengan connected against flesh.Originally posted by: Mut@chi
From what we've seen so far, Sasuke at level 2 has WAY more chakra than most characters and even more than Naruto (referring to him outlasting Naruto in their last fight).
In addition, Sasuke was complaining about not being able to remain in that second seal form almost as soon as he entered it. At that point, Naruto had already been all Kyuubi'd out, and showing Sasuke how strong the pimp hand was.
So, I am not totally understanding your equation as to how Sasuke outlasted Naruto.
The spiders did not penetrate. They were launched back and away as is everything else once coming into contact with Kaiten. The spiders were emitting sticky web substances which also had chakra on them and leeched onto it. I don't remember when Sasuke ever became capable of doing something like this.Originally posted by: Mut@chi
Neji's kaiten isn't even an ultimate defense anymore. We now know that he doesn't spin fast enough to stop stupid spiders from penetrating and clogging his shit up. That just means one thing. Sasuke's 3 comma'd sharingan can counter Neji's kaiten and its fast spin velocity. Then I'm gonna say that Sasuke can dodge every one of Neji's hakke attacks using his sharingan.
Also, 64 Palms of Hakke and Kaiten are bloodline abilities. Last I checked, Sharingan cannot aid much against these. Otherwise, Sasuke would have known which mirror Haku was truly in from the beginning.
Didn't notice this post, as I was quoting while going over the numerous pages I've missed.Originally posted by: Mut@chi
Clearly, the main reason why he wasn't able to spin was because of the sticky spider web, but my point was that since some spiders were able to penetrate the defense and stick webs on him, there's no reason why Sasuke can't do the same considering he uses the sharingan.
The spiders did not penetrate. The webs were leeching onto the projected chakra, basically sapping it. There was no longer a dome of chakra due to Neji slowing down, and portions of that chakra being removed by the web, which created the openings for the spiders to make direct contact and temporarily immobilize Neji.
Either way, Sharingan isn't cutting it in this area.
I agree with Neji not being faster than Kyuubi Naruto. At least, not in his "One-tail" mode, during the final bout with Sasuke.Originally posted by: Mut@chi
But then it all comes down to how fast can Neji react and how good Sasuke's sharingan is. Let me go back to my previous point about Neji not being fast than kyuubi'd Naruto: he isn't faster, and that just means that Sasuke, using his sharingan, can rape his face.
However, in the eyes of Sharingan .. Neji might as well be faster than Naruto. Naruto's movements, that were captured in your "Enter the Matrix" Focus vision, were influenced by chakra. You're so caught up in the manga (rightfully so), you should recall that Sasuke even states this. So, referring back to previous statements, due to the motions of Kyuubi Naruto being fueled by the demon's chakra, the Sharingan was able to quickly see that, break it down, and apply a viable counter-resolution for it. Neji speed is based on his own power. His own muscular fortitude. This, like Lee's speed, is based on stamina - which is not so easily broken down by the Sharingan. As explained after Sasuke caught an open-toed sandal to his jaw by Lee. And, surely that was eons ago and Sasuke has progressed a while since then, but the principle still remains. If the speed is too great, the Sharingan proves useless.
Sasuke's speed is a fraction of unweighted Lee's, and cannot be maintained for the duration Lee can. Lee's speed was nothing to Neji, during the greatest bout in the series [Lee v. Gaara], until the gates were unleashed, and that speed there .. well, we do not even need to go into that. Sasuke isn't there.
My point is that Sasuke isn't faster than Neji, or Lee. Neji's seen Lee's speed. He's battled it, and overwhelmed it. Lee's speed was nothing to Neji, which is why the only salvation for Lee would be to take it many levels above with Ura Renge.
This is opinion, over fact.Originally posted by: Mut@chi
That's the thing, Sasuke is tremendously more powerful than Kidoumaru.
Kidoumaru is much more suited for combat against Neji. So, while Sasuke may be so much more powerful, his fighting style isn't adapted to overcome Neji.
Neji was surprised by Ura Renge, nothing prior, especially his speed. Neji and TenTen were there, as Gai attempted to teach all three of them Omote Renge. Neji knows what was necessary for it. No surprises there. And, with his arrogance, you don't think Neji did what he could to still best Lee's technique?Originally posted by: Mut@chi
Neji would win every fight against a dumbass like Lee because without opening gates, Lee is a practice dummy against a natural genius like Neji. And Gai has always forbid Lee from opening the gates. We know this since Neji was surprised during Lee's fight against Gaara.
How can you justify the initial gate as enough to defeat Neji, when Gai taught Lee to open more? Gai knew opening more and moving that much more faster was the only way around Neji's Byakugan and speed.
And, Gai forbidding Lee in opening gates is nothing since we saw Lee break that promise twice. In his attempts to beat Neji, there's no doubt he's done it before. And, still lost.
3. So, you believe Sasuke would win flawlessly and not get touched a single time?Originally posted by: XanBcoo
3. Even one or two hits could still damage Sasuke pretty badly. IF they hit (which they wouldn't).
4. Sasuke could recover from the Hakke (64 hits) and would not be stupid enough to get hit again imo.
4. Still don't agree with this recovery argument you three are going on, for the reasons the few Neji fans have debated. Two chakra reserves is not a luxury Sasuke shares with Naruto.
Nine hours later, I posted my reasoning for mentioning a technique post time-jump Neji utilized, which was due to other forum members bringing up their speculated ideas that Sasuke would "assuredly" be able to shoot more than two Chidori.Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
You're pretty much the only one factoring in the post time-jump. Which is kinda dumb since there's no data on sasuke post time-jump yet. You cant formulate a hypothesis with incomplete variables, moron.
"Next time read the whole discussion before posting."
What chapter was this said in? Must've missed that one.Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Level 2 Sasuke >> Level 2 Kidoumaru...
The same way I missed said imaginary chapter, you missed the point.
Which was that an opponent who can maintain an increasingly overwhelming level of power, is a much more dangerous adversary than one who becomes riddled with pain moments after its activation.
"You cant formulate a hypothesis with incomplete variables, moron."
Revered as the No. #1 Rookie, right. Never hounded by the village idiots, females and other various characters. Two completely different things.Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Good argument. Oh wait...before there was Sasuke, Neji was revered as the number #1 rookie by everyone. Even when you bring up points that don't support neji, you still manage to be wrong.
Are you even reading the posts?
Yes, basically. If Neji makes physical contact with you, your tenketsu are being closed. That's just the end of that.Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
So basically anyone who gets too close to neji will automatically have their tenketsu hit and lose?
Was Hinata's arm not an obvious indication of this?
There were no fancy stances. No "finesse to immobilize his opponent." He never launched on the offensive and was simply performing defensive, parrying tactics. And, her arm was rendered useless for projecting chakra, a la Jyuuken.
64 Hands of Hakke + Lee = No Chakra. Chakra -> Taijutsu = Not necessary. Taijutsu + Stamina = Good Taijutsu.Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Is that why lee had a secret taijutsu move that was supposed to be the trick to beating neji, despite the fact that it means him getting right in neji's face?
Lee's secret Taijutsu technique was not to get around getting hit by Neji's Jyuuken, it was simply to get around Neji's complete vision and speed. Gai states the user is moving too fast to be seen. There was no concern for being hit, although that is generally understood. You cannot hit, what you cannot see.
"Even when you bring up points that don't support Sasuke, you still manage to be wrong."
Fucking genius, you are.
I forgot that all those hypnotic Genjutsu become auto-abilities, self-taught and learned the moment you acquire the complete, three-comma Sharingan.Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
And as I said before, neji's byakugan would leave him vulnerable to the hypnotic effects of the 3 pupil sharingan.
What was I thinking, right?
The Kyuubi's chakra is simply too much to be contained, in any shape or form. In no way does a seal Orochimaru provides compare to a Bijyuu's power. Just, no.Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
but both sources of chakra still flow through the same circulatory system...the kyubi's had to have been so strong that it unblocked all the holes.
In this sense, all that it takes is just an immense amount of chakra. And that was when naruto had less access to kyubi chakra than he did fighting sasuke, and yet his chakra was about equal to level 2 sasuke's. I'm inclined to suspect that level 2 sasuke's chakra might be able to unblock tenketsu just the same...possibly
Also, I don't see how you view it as Naruto getting access to the Fox's chakra. It's always been pending how much the Nine-tails is willing to give or put out. Kyuubi's like a bad date. It allowed Naruto first base when summoning, and another while fighting Neji, and the Kyuubi then took him home when he took the form of "one-tail."
The entire thread was a counter-argument, including my post which should have been obvious. Apparently, not to everyone, 'eh Assertn?Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Idiots who pat themselves on the back before recieving the counter-argument: 1
[Strider]
Game. Set. Match.
And, the final portion of that was actually a joke to Jagudar, as he posted "Match." in another one of our debates before I could respond.
However, there was no point in explaining that, as we all know you have no humor.
Go ask Mut' for some help at this shit though, because you're garbage.
ABORT. RETY. IGNORED.
Look. In all honesty, this topic is solely going to be based on conversation revolving around the Curse Seal, because without it, this would not even be a valid discussion, as Sasuke would be annihilated. Even with the Curse Seal, again .. I still stand by a previous statement that while Sasuke in that enheightened form of ugliness and power, his advantage over Neji would be immense, but Neji would still land a death blow and end it in a draw.
How many times in an anime series have you seen someone take the critical hit, solely for the purpose of landing their final blow in on the enemy? That's all Neji needs. And, Chidori, Sasuke's ace-in-the-hole, is a thrusting technique. It's not like Neji hasn't been crucified to a tree trunk with a spiral arrow through his gut or pierced right above his heart. And while Sasuke, arrogantly proud of his "power," stands there with his hand protruding through the back of Neji's spine, a final assault would be made to some critical area on Sasuke, enlightening him of what Jyuuken is.
.. Then we could all complain about Neji being revived by his long wisps of hair, once again.
UPDATE:
S A S U K E : 13
[Assertn; Barles; SFreedomZGMFx20a; chet_chetty; Mut@chi; Nests; XanBcoo; coud656; Phoenix20578; Shuurai; 6Zabuza9; Chaoskiddo; darkmetal505]
N E J I : 12
[DrCitan; Heero; Terra; Dark Maginn; Mite Gai; Turkish-S; Naruto_RNG; Dezalanel; Vasco; Heretic-Azazel; Shinda; Jurojin]
I think I'm finally done, now.
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