Bleach 54 Discussion

[The Heretic Azazel]

When an individual's life is at stake I very much doubt they would have a problem being dishonorable.

[DarthEnderX]

Don't tell a samurai that, he'll cut your face off.

[EpyonNext]

Originally posted by: basey44

Originally posted by: EpyonNext
In a fight that involves life or death, there is no such thing as dishonorable.

idiot, i could say so much about this but it would very much derail this thread, just think back over the last centuary and tell me if you think anything done during wartime has been dishonourable

First mistake is bringing wartime into the post. At no point did I say that war has no dishonor. War, or at least over the last hundred years as you are refrencing, has not been about Honor or dishonor. War is fought to settle dispute. Be it over land, power, or money, war is a means to an end. It could be as simple as Country A saying they want Country B to give their land up. Country B says no and Country A wants the land so bad they are willing to take up arms over it. I'm not going to get into the political intricacies of who is leading each country as I'm sure you are first thinking to counter that peice of argument with. Read Levithan by Thomas Hobbes if you want a good idea on my views of civil government, it's leadership, and it's people. Although it isn't an entirely accurate view, I happen to beleive in God and like democracy.

Now that we are done with why war is fought lets get down to the meat of War, the actual fighting. That battle is a fight for ones life. When fighting a war, any war for that matter, honor has no place. If a warfighter can shoot and enemy in the back I garuentee they will. Thats one less person that can kill the warfighter or any of his friends(on the battlefield with him), and ultimately bring harm to his friends and family back home. The purpose of the warfighter is to kill or aid in the processes requierd to wage war. The job a warfighter is to end the battle as quickly and violently as possiable. This does not mean to nuke a country if unnessiccary, but if a strong show of force is used, the defeated country is less likely to scream headlong into a fight against the victor. On a battlefield one should and most always will use overwhelming force to defeat an enemy. For facts sake, US Army infantry is not supposed to engauge an enemy unless they have three times the number of men that the enemy has. An Example would be that a squad of 12 men is not supposed to engauge any element larger then four men. This doesn't always turn out like that but it's the docterine that is important here. Some will say that is dishonorable to do such a thing. If someone says that, they must truly put themselves in the warfighters position and ask themselves if they want to go home when the fighting is done, and at the very least if they want to die. At that point any pretenses one had about honor and dishonor will wash away because at that persons core, they want to live, go home to their wife, kids, girlfriend, friends, mother, father, sister, brother, ect.

Your second mistake was to even think you should lecture me about war. As George Orwell once said, "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

I am one of those rough men. Fighting wars is my job, which I volunteered to do just because I want my friends and family to be able go about their lives without worrying about a carbomb exploding beside them or a plane crashing into where they work. I would not hesitate for even a fraction of a second to kill my enemies if they so much as lifted a finger to harm those dear to me. Call it dishonorable if you like. I'll take that route if it means those I love can live without that burden.

If you want to argue this further, feel free to PM me. I'll do my best to give you a well thought out argument for your points.

[Kensee]

This thread just hit a curve and went off on a bit of a tangent... just to Clarify, Byakuya thinks very LITTLE of Ichigo. In fact he really sees Ichigo as just scum that needs to be eliminated. Why the sneak attack? Well, he felt as if Ichigo wasn't worthy to fight him so he attempted to do what he did when they first met and just take him out fast.

Evidence of this could be shown at the minimal reaction Byakuya gives when Ichigo blocks it again, and will be made more apparent later on.

@EpyonNext: Are you in marines, army, etc? Sounded like it just wanted to clairfy.

Anyhow, how is everyone doing anyhow?

[FrogKing]

Thanks Kensee for getting back on track...I was starting to think I was reading the wrong thread. I don't want to get into the whole dishonor/honorable attack, but I do think that Byakuya was trying to test Ichigo's reaction and/or to determine how far he has come since he left with Yorouichi. I am sure he expected Ichigo to block the Shinpon (sp?), but like the fight with Renji...he also has a Bankai " Kageyoshi" (Blossom Brutal Shadows)! Can't wait till they square off which I hope is this week, so we can see Ichigo's Bankai as well!

[Kraco]

It's actually quite interesting if you think about Byakuya's Shikai/Bankai: They are both very slow, and thus would allow almost any opponent jolly good time to counter-attack. I wonder if it's just for that purpose that the guy has invested so much energy to otherwise become so fast. He could evade the enemy attack while preparing his Shikai or Bankai. Or in case the opponent is weak (relatively) like Renji, he just used some demon magic for the same effect. Maybe the opening already showed us Ichigo using this weakness.

[FrogKing]

Hahahaha, very good point Kraco why be a master of the quick/flash step and yet have a slow developing powerful attack that both Yorouichi and Renji have blocked. The attack has been counter using various techniques and the opening shows Ichigo attempting to counter it using what looks like something similar to the way he finished off Renji the second time around. Maybe your Soul Slayer's Shikai/Bankai is a reflection and/or balance of your fighting style. Btw, I hope they don't play that Pointer Sister sounding song when Ichigo owns Byakuya...

[el_boss]

Originally posted by: FrogKing
Btw, I hope they don't play that Pointer Sister sounding song when Ichigo owns Byakuya...

Do you mean that song "If you wanna see som action, you have got to be the center of attraction". Man I hate that song, I dont understand why they use a lame song like that for the intence action scenes. I would mute the sound when that song comes on but I get paralyzed from it's extreme awfulness.

[FrogKing]

That's the one! I kinda like the 80's guitar rift and the overall mood of the song; it does reflect what is going on in the anime. That said, when the singing lady chimes in I just imagine that it's Japanese and that I can't understand what what is being said ('cept I think it was the Bleach Society sub that actually had subbed the song for karaoke..then my plan was f'd).

[Deadfire]

Originally posted by: FrogKing
That's the one! I kinda like the 80's guitar rift and the overall mood of the song; it does reflect what is going on in the anime. That said, when the singing lady chimes in I just imagine that it's Japanese and that I can't understand what what is being said ('cept I think it was the Bleach Society sub that actually had subbed the song for karaoke..then my plan was f'd).

Nope "Number one" (the song) you discribe is sung in english...so in Japan they have no real clue of what she is saying( that is of course they don't understand english)..... my source for this info is my Bleach OST on my hard drive

[FrogKing]

Deadfire, I was being facetious. I realize it is in english...I hate that song so I imagine that it is in Japanese; therefore, I don't have to be reminded how fricken painful it is to hear some Pointer Sister wannabe sing "it's naaaaaatural!" without cringing.

[a_odessey]

sweet, WOO, this was awesome. he mauled those v-captains like they were nothing... total pawnage....... one of the best bleach eps ever!!!!

more reason to join my group!

[The Heretic Azazel]

The song Number One kicks ass.

Like you could do any better!

[Terracosmo]

Number One sucks. You're all tone deaf. It's downright bad and doesn't fit the series in any way, regardless of when it's being used. Seriously, it's that awful.

I can't believe so many people like it. :S

[mage]

i love number one

[DarthEnderX]

No song with words should ever be played when stuff is going on during anime. Period.

And if you have to have a song with words, yes, Number One is terrible.

[el_boss]

Originally posted by: DarthEnder
No song with words should ever be played when stuff is going on during anime. Period.

And if you have to have a song with words, yes, Number One is terrible.

You are absolutely right. The lyrics somehow take away the attention from what's happening.

I "number one" on song number one.

[EpyonNext]

Depends on the song and the situatuion, IMO. I think there are time that a lyrical song can add a whole lot to a scene. I do agree, however, that it gets used at times it shouldn't.

Oh, I like Number One. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

Edit: Kensee, I'm in the US Army.

[Aramis]

that song is okay once in a while, currently i think it's slightly overused though..

[masamuneehs]

Both Aramis and Kensee are correct. Terra misses the boat for a change. "Number One" is a great song that is overplayed in the anime. Wish there was another "optimistic battle music" theme once and awhile... You know, something that could fit the mood for more serious battles where Ichigo is not quite so confident as desperate and grittily determined to win or die trying. Number One works best when he's acting all cocky and surprising his opponent with his resilence and natural skills.