Bleach 59

[The Heretic Azazel]

Originally posted by: el_boss

Originally posted by: XanBcoo

Originally posted by: el_boss

Originally posted by: mage
in the manga there is a cover page that has ichigo and byakuya on it and says Black Passion vs White Pride

Your point being? Does it bother you that the "hero" has a black aura? I bet you would rather it were "white white vs white white."

No one said it bothers anyone. Mage was just answering my point about the "reverse roles" of the reiatsu colors. Turns out it was a metaphor referring to Ichigo's will and Byakuya's pride. No one's getting racey, dude.

We all know what he meant. You don't need to protect him. Remember this is the guy that has been known to say things like "go lie in a tub of bleach, 'cause black people aren't wanted" and "is it ok to say I hate black people".

There's no need for pointless flaming, so don't.

[el_boss]

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel

Originally posted by: el_boss

Originally posted by: XanBcoo

Originally posted by: el_boss

Originally posted by: mage
in the manga there is a cover page that has ichigo and byakuya on it and says Black Passion vs White Pride

Your point being? Does it bother you that the "hero" has a black aura? I bet you would rather it were "white white vs white white."

No one said it bothers anyone. Mage was just answering my point about the "reverse roles" of the reiatsu colors. Turns out it was a metaphor referring to Ichigo's will and Byakuya's pride. No one's getting racey, dude.

We all know what he meant. You don't need to protect him. Remember this is the guy that has been known to say things like "go lie in a tub of bleach, 'cause black people aren't wanted" and "is it ok to say I hate black people".

There's no need for pointless flaming, so don't.

Flaming? You mean what XanBcoo said?

[The Heretic Azazel]

No..

Mage has been a good little boy lately, he was just making an observation which was funny. I'd like to see the race stuff be over and done with now.

[XanBcoo]

Me too.

I would say that Ichigo has the following :
shikai mode - 1st form is the normal one with Zangetsu sword, 2nd form is Getsuga Tenshou.
bankai mode - 1st form is when he fights Byakuya, 2nd form unknown:

No, Ichigo's Shikai has only one form, just like the rest. It is possible that they have multiple abilities though. The same goes for Bankai.

[DarthEnderX]

You know what people, none of you know wtf your talking about. All this 1st forms 2nd forms bullcrap. There's no system to it. Whenever the writer wants a character to have a new power he's just gonna add one. If he wants Byakuya's bankai to have 5 different shapes then it will, with no reguard to the rest of all that.

Overthinking people. Jesus christ.

[Kensee]

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
Me too.

I would say that Ichigo has the following :
shikai mode - 1st form is the normal one with Zangetsu sword, 2nd form is Getsuga Tenshou.
bankai mode - 1st form is when he fights Byakuya, 2nd form unknown:

No, Ichigo's Shikai has only one form, just like the rest. It is possible that they have multiple abilities though. The same goes for Bankai.

Yep, the multiple moves you guys see are just different abilities of the Shaki n stuff (this is noticed when Ichigo says thats impressive but his sword only taught him ONE ability). Pretty much what he is saying is the answer to all specilation, that in fact there is only 1 shikai and only 1 bankai, but of course you can learn certain techinques for each form (usually the Shikai form). In tossen's case, his shikai has two attack techniques .. the circle he used on the Quincy, and the Rain of blades he used on Kenpachi, that is not his SHIKAI but just attacks he can use (much like how Ichigo can use the attack technique that shoots out a beam of energy etc).

Bayaka really only has 1 bankai, its just he cna manipulate it depending on his situation. If he wants defense and attack, he does sakura flowers, if he wants all out attack and no defense he does his sphere of swords thing.

Yeah and theres still a lot of the story to be uncovered (hell the Manga isnt that farther off from the anime so even manga readers still have so many unanswered questions). SO just sit back and let it come =D.

[FrogKing]

Originally posted by: XanBcoo

I would say that Ichigo has the following :
shikai mode - 1st form is the normal one with Zangetsu sword, 2nd form is Getsuga Tenshou.
bankai mode - 1st form is when he fights Byakuya, 2nd form unknown:

No, Ichigo's Shikai has only one form, just like the rest. It is possible that they have multiple abilities though. The same goes for Bankai.

Actually, XanBcoo I think this is a semantic argument because I would argue that there is only 1 Shikai and 1 Bankai release ; however, there are multiple forms for each release. Form is defined as "the essence of something; the mode in which a thing exists, acts, or manifests itself." Whereas, ability is defined as " the quality of being able to do something to accomplish something." In this case, ability is a little broad, but form I think is fitting because of the nature of each Zanpaktu. As far as we know, the Zanpaktu in the essence of the sword and each Zanpaktu has 2 releases (Shikai and Bankai); however, how the Zanpaktu manifests itself can be in multiple forms (exactly how Kensee stated it in his post above).
Furthermore, the translations in the anime (I haven't read the manga translations) states on a couple occasions a reference to form (and more loosely to ability).
Byakuya, "The true form of Senbonzakura."
Byakuya (to Ichigo), "So it was not you in that form who was trying to attack me relentlessly."
I actually tend to agree with Darth's latter statement about a writer and the freedom to make liberal interprutations of his 'rules'.

Orginally posted by: DarthEnder
Whenever the writer wants a character to have a new power he's just gonna add one. If he wants Byakuya's bankai to have 5 different shapes then it will, with no reguard to the rest of all that.

However, in the end I think Kensee hit it on the nail:

Originally posted by: Kensee
Yeah and theres still a lot of the story to be uncovered (hell the Manga isnt that farther off from the anime so even manga readers still have so many unanswered questions). SO just sit back and let it come =D.

[XanBcoo]

Originally posted by: FrogKing
Actually, XanBcoo I think this is a semantic argument because I would argue...

You're right, "release" is a better word, but my point is still the same. The different forms and abilities of the soul slayers are not different releases. And yes, of course the original artist/storywriter has certain freedoms pertaining to the rules he's set up as part of his "universe", I was just trying to clarify my point above.

But overall, I agree with you and Kensee.

[Carnage]

Just simply think of it like this:

there are two releases of a soulslayer:

1.) Shikai

2.) Bankai

the two forms can have different multiple attacks each.

there u go