The Bitching Thread

[Ryllharu]

You can't say there is a negligible effect of having admitted to drug use on the initial interest forms for a police job because that's how it applies to security clearances for gov't desk and labor jobs. Because then you'd be talking out of your ass.

No different from an applicant "forgetting" that vacation they took to China, smart guy.

Oh, and the civilian guards at a lot of the government contractor facilities have better weapons than the city cops, but don't let facts get in the way. And they do draw their sidearms...just because someone has their badge tucked under a coat.

[Buffalobiian]

Try the next dp regardless. At least then you know you did, rather than wondering later on in life whether you would have gotten a chance elsewhere.

[Animeniax]

Try the next dp regardless. At least then you know you did, rather than wondering later on in life whether you would have gotten a chance elsewhere.

I probably will once I've thought it through, but really this is probably a blessing in disguise. Austin and its surrounding areas really are a shitty place to be a cop. It's got this conservative values country/hillbilly background because its central Texas, but it's got a liberal feel because of the uni and all the hippies. Add in the proximity to Mexico and you have a 36% brown population. Add all that together and what locals like to dub as a charming "weirdness" (they have t-shirts advocating "keep Austin weird") makes it a town in flux trying to find an identity. What that means to cops is that they are expected to be superheroes because of the conservative crime control base but you're on a tight leash because of the liberals and their anti-police mentality. So in the end you try to do your job but get scrutinized and sued and can lose your job easily just to appease the public. I even considered starting out with a smaller PD so I wouldn't have to put up with the bullshit, but the tide of the process swept me to apply at the major PD. Thanks for the advice, I'll let you know how it goes.

That is too bad Ani. Hope something else works out for you. Its nice of Ryl and DS and Y to let you vent your confused frustration on them though

It's not a confused frustration. I know what I did wrong and why and why the outcome is what it is (I hate that saying btw, fucking cop-out excuse). I'm mad that guys like ryllharu try to apply their situations to my situation like they know what the deal is. Y is a pothead and I hope that shit doesn't catch up to him but I know it will. DS is just being DS.

In the end I actually appreciate their feedback, though it's hard to tell since I'm on full defensive psychological preservation mode. It's been therapeutic venting and I hope you guys aren't too put off and will continue to interact. Though now that I've exposed a weakness I'm sure you'll all pounce and try to tear me down some more. Give it your best.

[Abdula]

That is too bad Ani. Hope something else works out for you. Its nice of Ryl and DS and Y to let you vent your confused frustration on them though

[Kraco]

Do you reckon your chances might be better if you tried again in some less conservative state and a city/town with less fierce competition? The USA is a helluva big country, after all, so you should have lots of options. Unless they systematically drop applicants who were dropped elsewhere for any reason. I imagine if you got in anywhere and had a spotless record of a number of years, it would be far easier then to move back to a place where you'd rather spend the rest of your career in.

[Ryllharu]

It's not a confused frustration. I know what I did wrong and why and why the outcome is what it is (I hate that saying btw, fucking cop-out excuse). I'm mad that guys like ryllharu try to apply their situations to my situation like they know what the deal is.

You just don't get it, and that's the saddest part. You're almost there though.

(A) Intentionally not disclosing prior drug use (because you were afraid it would disqualify you for a job where drug enforcement in involved).

(B) Intentionally not disclosing a trip to China (or Iran, or Pakistan, or Syria, or Russia, etc.) for a job that requires US security clearance.

(A) and (B) are exactly the same. Like I said several posts back, It's not what you left off, it's not whether it is drug use, a drug misdemeanor, a trip to visit family in China, a business trip, the 2008 Olympics, or a trip to Canada, or that for four months you lived with a now ex-girlfriend.

Get this through your head: It isn't the prior act. It is that you lied about it, and they caught you (because you told them). Honestly, how were they even going to find out about recreational drug use? At least with a trip to China while trying to get a job that requires US clearance, they can actually look up customs records, or off your passport.

A person who manges to do that, whatever the omission is, doesn't just suddenly appear like they might not be trusted, they just proved that they can't be trusted. I don't know how you can't see the obvious parallel.

[Animeniax]

Do you reckon your chances might be better if you tried again in some less conservative state and a city/town with less fierce competition? The USA is a helluva big country, after all, so you should have lots of options. Unless they systematically drop applicants who were dropped elsewhere for any reason. I imagine if you got in anywhere and had a spotless record of a number of years, it would be far easier then to move back to a place where you'd rather spend the rest of your career in.

Yeah at this point I'm thinking that might be the real point of this entire mess... some karmic alignment that will force me to move to a city/town more suited to me. I don't really like Austin, but I do have a house here. But the weather, people, traffic, and mindset of the locals really don't jive with me. I'm just not sure where else I could/would want to live and work.

You just don't get it, and that's the saddest part. You're almost there though.

(A) Intentionally not disclosing prior drug use (because you were afraid it would disqualify you for a job where drug enforcement in involved).

(B) Intentionally not disclosing a trip to China (or Iran, or Pakistan, or Syria, or Russia, etc.) for a job that requires US security clearance.

(A) and (B) are exactly the same. Like I said several posts back, It's not what you left off, it's not whether it is drug use, a drug misdemeanor, a trip to visit family in China, a business trip, the 2008 Olympics, or a trip to Canada, or that for four months you lived with a now ex-girlfriend.

Get this through your head: It isn't the prior act. It is that you lied about it, and they caught you (because you told them). Honestly, how were they even going to find out about recreational drug use? At least with a trip to China while trying to get a job that requires US clearance, they can actually look up customs records, or off your passport.

A person who manges to do that, whatever the omission is, doesn't just suddenly appear like they might not be trusted, they just proved that they can't be trusted. I don't know how you can't see the obvious parallel.

Nope, you're still mostly wrong. When the reviewer cop told me I'd been disqualified, he specifically mentioned how prior drug use in my 30s was significantly more damning than if it had been in my teens or early twenties, aside from the fact that I did not admit to it on the applications. Partly because it adds to the deception since it makes my omission more willful since the use only occurred a couple years ago so I couldn't say I forgot about it. But also because he couldn't trust that it was purely experimentation or that it was done for the purpose I stated, which was to "get my feet wet" before jumping into the pool that is police work. He made that point clear, that experimentation with drugs occurs when you're in your teens, not as a 30-something.

They would have found out about the drug use because of the polygraph test that they administer. Do you administer a poly for security clearances?

[Ryllharu]

Do you administer a [polygraph tests] for security clearances?

Yes. They're always done for Top Secret clearance, and occasionally for Secret, depending on what you'd need to look at. Sensitive Compartmented Information (SCI) in particular. It is quite well detailed on the wikipedia articles about the topic.

If you knew you were going to get polygraphed, all the more reason to disclose it up front.

But also because he couldn't trust that it was purely experimentation or that it was done for the purpose I stated, which was to "get my feet wet" before jumping into the pool that is police work.

That's quite possibly the most boneheaded reason I've ever heard to try out drugs.

[Animeniax]

Yes. They're always done for Top Secret clearance, and occasionally for Secret, depending on what you'd need to look at. Sensitive Compartmented Information (SCI) in particular. It is quite well detailed on the wikipedia articles about the topic.

If you knew you were going to get polygraphed, all the more reason to disclose it up front.

That's quite possibly the most boneheaded reason I've ever heard to try out drugs.

Polygraphs aren't some magic truth telling device. You can fail/set off triggers on the poly just by being nervous or sleepy. I could have passed the poly satisfactorily without ever admitting to the drug use. I think kudos should be given that I fessed up. Thinking back, not sure why I decided to admit it instead of trying to beat the poly. It would have been a fun experience, especially if I beat it.

I think it's more pathetic to try drugs because you think life sucks and you want to dull the pain and tedium by getting high. There are so many better ways to improve your life than by drowning in your own sorrows (getting high).

[Y]

I think it's more pathetic to try drugs because you think life sucks and you want to dull the pain and tedium by getting high. There are so many better ways to improve your life than by drowning in your own sorrows (getting high).

I say that your hilariously stupid stated reason for trying drugs is, hands down, the dumbest possible rationale. It's good to know that despite endemic incompetence and corruption in many police forces around America, they are still clever enough to avoid hiring you.

[Animeniax]

I say that your hilariously stupid stated reason for trying drugs is, hands down, the dumbest possible rationale. It's good to know that despite endemic incompetence and corruption in many police forces around America, they are still clever enough to avoid hiring you.

Yeah those guys are such great successes. They'll be remembered for how well they led this country and its effect on the international community.

I have to agree with you though. As fucked up as the police are in the US, they've managed to keep out probably one of the best candidates to make positive changes and a true force for good. Guess I'll spend my energies playing video games instead. I wish I had less drive and optimism than I do and could just be happy getting high and sitting around. Then I could be like you Y.

[Abdula]

Wow! It must be an awesome world inside your head Animeniax.

[Animeniax]

Wow! It must be an awesome world inside your head Animeniax.

You're one to talk, you emo bitch. Buddy old pal!

[Abdula]

Emo? Me? Tears of blood are so 4 years ago. I'm all mellow now

[Animeniax]

Emo? Me? Tears of blood are so 4 years ago. I'm all mellow now

Did you start smoking weed?

[Abdula]

Ew no. Why would I do that.

[The Heretic Azazel]

So now that you've failed as a cop, will I be seeing you zooming through my local strip mall on your segway?

[Animeniax]

So now that you've failed as a cop, will I be seeing you zooming through my local strip mall on your segway?

Nah, I go hard or go home. APD is one of the top forces in the country (in their own estimation) including pay, benefits, and training. To settle for a smaller outfit or a shittier PD would be a step down, like joining the army instead of being a marine. I don't play that shit. Since I can't be APD (I can reapply somewhere between 3-10 years, they'll let me know) I guess that's God's way of letting me know that's not my path in life. Now I have to make my own path in life, and that's what's eating me, since I'm not sure what else I want to do with my life and it's getting late in the game to decide on a change now. So fuck it.

[Abdula]

My interactions with the NYPD have all been pleasant experiences. Cops are fun people, they have a tough job and they do it.

I guess that's God's way of letting me know that's not my path in life.

This is my bitch. I hate it when people say that, particularly when they fail at something. Its the biggest cop out ever. People do stupid things or make bad decisions but the reason they are not successful is because God didn't want them to be. It really makes me irrationally upset because how stupid do you have to be to believe that. Seriously, there are very few things that make me angry but people who believe that some deity sits and micromanages their lives happens to be one of those things.

[Animeniax]

My interactions with the NYPD have all been pleasant experiences. Cops are fun people, they have a tough job and they do it.

This is my bitch. I hate it when people say that, particularly when they fail at something. Its the biggest cop out ever. People do stupid things or make bad decisions but the reason they are not successful is because God didn't want them to be. It really makes me irrationally upset because how stupid do you have to be to believe that. Seriously, there are very few things that make me angry but people who believe that some deity sits and micromanages their lives happens to be one of those things.

That's fine you believe what you believe. I've had enough signs and "coincidences" to know that we all don't have free choice and just make our own way through life. The people you meet, the experiences you have, the failures you have, they occur for a reason and for some greater plan. That's not true for everyone though.

Think of it like this: we're an ant farm run by some kid. Some ants will get more attention that others from this kid. God is the kid. We're the ants.

I didn't "fail" at anything. I followed a path laid out for me that suddenly diverged into nothingness and with no alternative path that makes sense.