Ok, I guess I didnt take enough consideration of the baby. But then that creates the problem where people can just go around having sex withou a worry because they can just abort the baby.Originally posted by: Xollence
Does it matter who's fault it is? How does the baby's life differ in the two situations? The baby's value isn't any less because the mother got raped.
I would think disease is a good enough reason to wrap your tool.Originally posted by: God#2
Ok, I guess I didnt take enough consideration of the baby. But then that creates the problem where people can just go around having sex withou a worry because they can just abort the baby.Originally posted by: Xollence
Does it matter who's fault it is? How does the baby's life differ in the two situations? The baby's value isn't any less because the mother got raped.
Edit: Besides pregnancy, of course.
"Pudding can't fill the emptiness inside me! But it'll help."
Babies are fricking nothing more then little pets that eat sleep vomit and shit. I'd really say that a person isn't a person until they've grown to the point where they can express sentient concious thought. A fetus is not a fricking person. Damn stupid abortioners, I really think that it's something that should not be as big of deal as it is. Something used by politicians to manipulate stupid people and diverte their attention from real more pressing problems and issues.
Well in this I'm going to have to go for my general philosophy on life in general "People should be allowed to do whatever they want, as long as it doesn't hurt others". So I'm going to have to go pro-choice on this one. Until the baby is born, even though I believe it is a human being it is still technically part of the mother, and therefore it should be her choice whether or not to have an abortion. I do agree that the father should have a say though, but no woman should be forced into aborting a child if she doesn't want to.
Now as to me: Personally, I could never support the abortion of any potential Anphorus-juniors which may some day exist, unless there was some kind of serious health risk, to either the mother or the baby. To me it would be the same as if I had strangled the kid myself and I just couldn't do that.
You know I have that same exact philosophy?Originally posted by: anphorus
Well in this I'm going to have to go for my general philosophy on life in general "People should be allowed to do whatever they want, as long as it doesn't hurt others".
Man, its kinda wrong though, I would only allow abortions for rape causes or if she is going to die. Its mostly peoples faults for not using protection. For some reason its a spiritual thing to me, and I haven't even gone to church in like a year.
No one but the enemy will ever teach you how to destroy and conquer. Only the enemy shows you where you are weak. Only the enemy tells you when he is strong. And the rules of the game are what you can do to him and what you can stop him from doing to you. I am your enemy from now on. From now on, I am your teacher."
-Mazer Rackham
doesn't it hurt the fetus?Originally posted by: anphorus
Well in this I'm going to have to go for my general philosophy on life in general "People should be allowed to do whatever they want, as long as it doesn't hurt others". So I'm going to have to go pro-choice on this one.
not neccessarily. the fetus isn't a cancer or an organ or even made up of the mother's tissues. the fetus has his or her own unique DNA that is differant than the mother's. Just because the fetus depends on the mother to survive, does not mean that the fetus is a part of the mother. nor is the fetus a piece of property. my belief is that life starts at the moment the egg is fertilized and at that point it becomes human. It may not be as developed as a full adult but the unborn child should have the same human rights as any man woman or child, including the right to life and no one should have the choice to take that right away. so that being said, i believe abortion should be illegal. and if it was illegal, my hope would be that most of those that may one day have an unwanted pregnancy would finally take birth control seriously or see adoption as a viable option.Originally posted by: anphorus
Until the baby is born, even though I believe it is a human being it is still technically part of the mother, and therefore it should be her choice whether or not to have an abortion.
Human rights is not some holy verdict. It only exists to make it easier and safer for people to live during normal times. It's like a part of good manners and conduct. A means to ensure the strong don't oppress the weak.Originally posted by: ChiaCheese
It may not be as developed as a full adult but the unborn child should have the same human rights as any man woman or child, including the right to life and no one should have the choice to take that right away. so that being said, i believe abortion should be illegal. and if it was illegal, my hope would be that most of those that may one day have an unwanted pregnancy would finally take birth control seriously or see adoption as a viable option.
However, human rights are not basically meant to make life harder. If abortion was made illegal based on human rights, it'd on most occasions make life harder for those who would personally suffer the consequences of such a law. A fetus or embryo, which has not yet reached consciousness is mentally unaware of its existence and thus unaware of its death as well.
Personally I don't think the flesh of a human is as important as what's inside his/her mind. The personal identity, mind, experiences and opinions of an individual are what make a human being. The fetus/embryo lacks all of them. It's nothing but a lump of flesh.
I guess I'm wading into the waters a bit late but I will give my view anyway.
You could classify me as a religious person. There are a few people on the forum with whom I have discussed these issues already so they would already know that. To be more specific I am a Muslim.
As far as I understand Islam's position on abortion, it is the following. If a woman is to have an abortion or not depends on the circumstances. We all know that once an egg is fertilized it wil start to grow into a human. Since killing a human, no matter how old simply for existing is not allowed, the question is when exactly can we term this lump of cells to be alive? The time at which they zygote is said to have life is said to be either 40 or 42 days after fertilization (the number difference lies in the process of deriving Islamic laws, and you have to pick one number based upon what you think is the strongest derivation process). After this point, you cannot carry out an abortion. I am not sure but I think exceptions do exist, such as if the health (be it mental or physical) of the mother is seriously under threat (not one of those oh no I'm pregnant now what scenarios). There may be other exceptions but I am not sure. As for parents wanting to end the life of the unborn child due to fears of poverty, this is not allowed because there is a concept in Islam which states that your worldy provision or rizq in arabic is provided by Allah and that you would not die until you have received all of your rizq.
Before the 40 or 42 day period abortions are allowed in Islam and are considered to actually be a form of contraception, since you are not killing a live being.
Yes to all aborts...babies have less intelligence than creatures we kill for food, they won't mind being killed. and you can always get a new one whenever you want.
What bitter irony it must be for those women who become unable to have children again after an abortion.
One of the worst things I have seen in my life was when I worked in a hospital for a month during my military service. I was in the post operation ward and almost everyday there would come in women who had gone trough what is called a hysterectomy, even the word gives me the chills. Hysterectomy is the name of the procedure where the uterus is removed, because of cancer or some other illness. Without fault all these women were crying and depressed. I think this experience effected me alot regarding my view on abortion.
I think it's obvious that a woman should be allowed to govern over her own body, I mean it's better to get it done in a hospital than try to get the fetus out with a coathanger. But still, the tought of what actually happens in an abortion leaves me with an unpleasant feeling.
You like to bring up this concept that people going around having sex is a bad thing. You've done this in another thread, yet I'm still not sure why.Originally posted by: God#2
Ok, I guess I didnt take enough consideration of the baby. But then that creates the problem where people can just go around having sex withou a worry because they can just abort the baby.Originally posted by: Xollence
Does it matter who's fault it is? How does the baby's life differ in the two situations? The baby's value isn't any less because the mother got raped.
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
ARE YOU A FILTHY FUCKING CHRISTIAN, GOD #2??
"They call it 'The American Dream' because you have to be asleep to believe it" - George Carlin
Really? Which thread? Well, its not so much sex, but more the fact tat she could just abort a child everytime the lady gets pregnant which doesnt just seem right (Im gonna have to think up a good reason later). And Im not against sex. I go in the Onepiece/Bleach Babes thread.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
You like to bring up this concept that people going around having sex is a bad thing. You've done this in another thread, yet I'm still not sure why.Originally posted by: God#2
Ok, I guess I didnt take enough consideration of the baby. But then that creates the problem where people can just go around having sex withou a worry because they can just abort the baby.Originally posted by: Xollence
Does it matter who's fault it is? How does the baby's life differ in the two situations? The baby's value isn't any less because the mother got raped.
Oh, and also,
1.) Im not christian ( Though I know Heretic was just kidding of course)
2.) Im not religious, infact, Im sort of against how much influence religions have on people. It very often leads many people to commit many stupid acts. Infact, many wars are fought and have been fought because of relgion. Change that, most wars. Dont get, me wrong, I have my own beliefs, and I believe in god. But People should come up with some of their own ideas and follow what makes sense, instead of blindly following the faith they were born into.
Since I'm bored, I'll put in my two cents. I'm with the people that say that an unborn child is not a part of the mother's body. Sure, it's dependent on it's mother's body, but it's got it's own unique DNA and potential. I'm actually kinda torn on the whole issue of abortion though.
Now, most people believe that a newborn child is the moral equivalent of any other human being. Killing one is considered immoral. But what's the difference between a child two days before it's born compared to two days later? Nothing really, just where it's located. Essentually the same creature. How about two weeks? Again, a child born two weeks early does just fine. The same with a month early, no problems. Two months early? They don't do as well, but can survive with support and grow up normally. As technology progresses younger children will be able to survive independently of their mothers. So where do we draw the line? When the brain develops? When the heart starts beating? It seems to me like any distinction we make woud be arbitrary, and I don't like guessing about something like this. So although I see that calling a ball of cells equivalent to a human being doesn't make a lot of sense, well, they don't stay balls of cells for long, and really the whole idea of abortion leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Edit: And it's cool that we can have some kind of decent conversation about this without being at each other's throats.
Yeah. I'm actually quite impressed that three pages of this included mostly intelligent posts and not a single instance of real flaming. Is the gotwoot community maturing?
edit: This will be the only post of this sort I promise.
"You are not free whose liberty is won by the rigour of other, more righteous souls. Your are merely protected. Your freedom is parasitic, you suck the honourable man dry and offer nothing in return. You who have enjoyed freedom, who have done nothing to earn it, your time has come. This time you will stand alone and fight for yourselves. Now you will pay for your freedom in the currency of honest toil and human blood."
- Inquisitor Czevak
Here's actually an interesting Map of abortion laws.
Mae, aren't abortions to babies old enough to live outside of the mother quite rare indeed? I don't think such operations are performed regularly. In fact, I wonder if they are even legit. In that sense your point loses some relevance points and gains some hypothesis points...
Yeah, it's awesome. There's a lot of that going on in the NY Transit Strike thread too. You'd love the maturity in there.Originally posted by: Uchiha Barles
I'm actually quite impressed that three pages of this included mostly intelligent posts and not a single instance of real flaming.
First off, I don't support abortion (for the contribution). However, I think it would've been better for the world if Chaoskiddo's parents had aborted him, or straight up miscarried him during their frenzied opium smoking marathons. It's too bad that they couldn't resist participating in any kind of sexual intercourse in the first place. I mean, they could've just done oral and then Chaoskiddo would be nothing more than a bad after taste in his mother's opium smoking mouth. Do you have any other explanation aside from the consumption of drugs as to why Chaoskiddo looks like a 10 year old? Scientists need to start cracking on an incubator made for people who look half their age. Better yet, maybe his opium smoking father should've just fucked his mother's opium smoking ass and then he could've just been shat out like the little shit that he is. Oh well, at least he's alive to provide fodder for thought.
Terra's one-night-stand thread.Originally posted by: God#2
Really? Which thread? Well, its not so much sex, but more the fact tat she could just abort a child everytime the lady gets pregnant which doesnt just seem right (Im gonna have to think up a good reason later).
Yiiiiiikes [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]And Im not against sex. I go in the Onepiece/Bleach Babes thread.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
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