Customized computer?

[Animeniax]

I can't really nitpick at anything there, except that if you were looking at changing the bus speed of the CPU for overclocking, some DDR2-1066 would give you more headroom. It's not needed at all though, especially since it's a good CPU on default settings alone, and overclocks well using multipliers only too.

Does that case have a handle (or can you find one with one)? That would be handy.

No handle, but that's not a big minus even though I plan to carry it around. I won't be overclocking since it's a small case with little room for cooling, but I will go with your suggestion and get a higher speed RAM for future upgradeability.

I'm thinking of going with lower models of each part to cut the budget, like getting a cheaper case than a Lian-Li in the same size. Mainly I'd like feedback if all the parts would work together and are good for the price, since I've been out of PC building for a while so I don't know what's what anymore.

[David75]

Just did a very quick search, but seems like the proc is choosen because the best in range, rather than best overall?

Seems like the 925 would be a better performance/price challenger
The AMD Phenom II X6 1055T would be a better performer for the same thermal envelop, although more expensive.

Then there's the sandybridge alternative with the core i5-2500 but even with bundles I guess it's not possible to have a low cost
machine. But at least you gets lots of HP for a lower TDP (95W) which is very important in a tiny case.

I'll try to get more time and think about it.

I've spent a lot of time thinking of temperature/performance ratios as I do not tolerate noise, but still need power

[Buffalobiian]

I've spent a lot of time thinking of temperature/performance ratios as I do not tolerate noise, but still need power

Same with me. It's hard sometimes.

It'd be nice to have a max budget from Ani too to work with, but I'll need to play catch-up. The new 1155 socket launch completely left me behind.

Newegg doesn't have very many non-black Phenoms anymore, which I was hoping to find to drop the price.

[Animeniax]

Is there a big difference between the black and non-black versions performance and price wise? The 925 is $20 cheaper so I decided to stick with the 955. I considered going Intel, but like David75 said, it's really not easy to go budget with a i-cpu based system.

I don't really have a max budget, maybe $500. Here's the current list which totals $525:

1. APEVIA X-QPACK-NW-BK/420 Black Aluminum 1.0 w/ ABS plastic front panel MicroATX Desktop Computer Case 420W Power Supply
2. MSI 880GM-E43 AM3 AMD 880G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
3. MSI R5770 Hawk Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
4. AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ955FBGMBOX
5. G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7D-4GBRM

[Buffalobiian]

Is there a big difference between the black and non-black versions performance and price wise? The 925 is $20 cheaper so I decided to stick with the 955. I considered going Intel, but like David75 said, it's really not easy to go budget with a i-cpu based system.

I don't really have a max budget, maybe $500. Here's the current list which totals $525:

1. APEVIA X-QPACK-NW-BK/420 Black Aluminum 1.0 w/ ABS plastic front panel MicroATX Desktop Computer Case 420W Power Supply
2. MSI 880GM-E43 AM3 AMD 880G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
3. MSI R5770 Hawk Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
4. AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ955FBGMBOX
5. G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7D-4GBRM

Non-black versions simply have their multipliers unlocked for easier overclocking. If they were released far enough apart, they'd also be using a newer die spec that would allow them to run cooler / more energy efficient. They would perform the same as their non-black counterparts on a clock-per-clock basis. From memory, most of them step up just a tiny bit in front of the non-blacks though (like the 3.4GHz vs 3.2Ghz you had?). It's up to you, really (assuming you have both versions to choose from).

It's not worth using faster DDR2 since that's getting phased out, but I see you found some faster DDR3 RAM and a board for the same price. Nice.

That build looks good to go, though I'm sure you know the 5770 is a step down from the GTX 460, as suggested by the price.



--------------------------


In other news, I bought a mains power meter to measure the power and cost of running appliances around the house. To start with, I tested the consumption of our two main computers (my brother's C2D and my i5) and got some interesting results:

i5 760 (2.8GHz, 4 cores), ATI HD 5870

idle: 55-60w (CPU @ 1.2GHz)
4 cores loaded: 120w (CPU @ 2.93GHz)
4 cores + GPU loaded: 270w (CPU @ 2.93GHz)
2 cores + GPU loaded: 250w (CPU @ 2.99-3.05GHz)


C2D E8400 (3.0GHz, 2 cores), Nvidia GTX 470

idle: 80-90w (CPU @ 2.0GHz)
2 cores loaded: 130w (CPU @ 3.0GHz)
2 cores + GPU loaded: 350w (CPU @ 3.0GHz)

[Animeniax]

That build looks good to go, though I'm sure you know the 5770 is a step down from the GTX 460, as suggested by the price.

Cool thanks for the information on the black vs non-black versions. I decided to go with an ATI videocard so I can crossfire it with the built-in vidcard on the motherboard. Most all AMD motherboards I've seen have integrated ATI vidcards, some of which support crossfiring with another vidcard.

In other news, I bought a mains power meter to measure the power and cost of running appliances around the house. To start with, I tested the consumption of our two main computers (my brother's C2D and my i5) and got some interesting results:

i5 760 (2.8GHz, 4 cores), ATI HD 5870

idle: 55-60w (CPU @ 1.2GHz)
4 cores loaded: 120w (CPU @ 2.93GHz)
4 cores + GPU loaded: 270w (CPU @ 2.93GHz)
2 cores + GPU loaded: 250w (CPU @ 2.99-3.05GHz)


C2D E8400 (3.0GHz, 2 cores), Nvidia GTX 470

idle: 80-90w (CPU @ 2.0GHz)
2 cores loaded: 130w (CPU @ 3.0GHz)
2 cores + GPU loaded: 350w (CPU @ 3.0GHz)

Wow the differences are pretty drastic between core2 and i series, though how much can be chalked up to the videocards? Maybe you could swap videocards and check the meter again.

[darkshadow]

Lol you want to crossfire a 5770 with a 4250.....hahahahahahahaha

[Buffalobiian]

Wow the differences are pretty drastic between core2 and i series, though how much can be chalked up to the videocards? Maybe you could swap videocards and check the meter again.

Ho ho, that sounds messy. :P.

Some of my results seem to conflict with other sites' data. For example, two sites tested that the 750 under load measures more than the 8400. That makes sense.

Similarly, one review places the two cards fairly close together, while another notes that there are fairly big differences.

When you take into the efficiency of my i5's power supply vs the C2D's, things match up a bit. Working out the DC power draw from the efficiency tables, our two-core-plus-graphics at load drew 225w(i5,5870) vs 298w(C2D,470).

That's a 73w difference. Review sites reckon the 470 draws 30-60W more, and my own results suggest the C2D draws up to 30W more at load, giving a difference leeway of 60-90w. I did buy a pretty expensive power meter that's within 2% accuracy after all.

All in all, it's "about right". Review sites have stated that their equipment isn't 100% consistent due to testing different sockets. Then you have to factor in that the i5 has a newer mobo, is running the lower-volted DDR3 vs DDR2, and uses two eco-5400rpm drives instead of three 7200rpm ones.

Unless I'm bothered to swap cards and work out the gfx loads using simultaneous equations, this will always be muddy. :P



--------------------


I also bought an IR laser themometer. I bought it to measure the video RAM temps during torture tests, as they don't have an onboard sensor and I've also got a custom cooler with 3rd party vram-sinks. Temps measured from 59C to 74C, so it's all within specs.

The manual advises you to measure as close as possible because the measuring diameter increases with distance. Being the guy I was, I got too trigger happy and ended up dropping my laser on the the 5870's PCB and shorted it out. >.<"

It's been running fine since then, and it rebooted successfully immediately afterwards, so I'm just hoping that's the end of that little incident. I had the option of buying an IR laser pen or an IR laser orb that hangs around your neck. The orb was plastic, but looked like a stopwatch, so I opted for the more stylish metal pen laser. Maybe the other one would have been a safer choice after all..

[Animeniax]

Lol you want to crossfire a 5770 with a 4250.....hahahahahahahaha

I take it from your cacophonous laughter that this is a bad idea? Will there be no performance gain utilizing both cards (gasp maybe even a performance hit)? The description on the mobo makes it sound like a great feature that will improve performance.

[Buffalobiian]

I take it from your cacophonous laughter that this is a bad idea? Will there be no performance gain utilizing both cards (gasp maybe even a performance hit)? The description on the mobo makes it sound like a great feature that will improve performance.

Crossfiring 2 identical cards gives you... like up to 33% benefit max?

A 4250 would do jack all.

The 460 would be a better buy. It performs up to twice as well as the 5770.

[Animeniax]

Crossfiring 2 identical cards gives you... like up to 33% benefit max?

A 4250 would do jack all.

The 460 would be a better buy. It performs up to twice as well as the 5770.

That works out. I prefer to buy Nvidia products since I own their stock. If the crossfire is worthless, I can go back to plan A and get a newer Nvidia card for my home PC and install the 8800GTX from that system into this portable PC.

[darkshadow]

a 4250 wouldn't do jack all...it would DESTROY the performance, since in crossfire the cards run at identical speeds....using the LOWEST gpu in the pair...
And besides that is talking about if it would work at all, which it wouldn't since the cards need to be of the same family; a 4870 can xfire with a 4830, but not with a 4650. I think the only exception is the 3xxx series which can also pair with a 2xxx series (I THINK).

In short, pairing a 5770 with the igp 4250 wouldn't work, and if it somehow did, it would completely destroy the performance of the 5770, which is at least 10x more powerful.

[Buffalobiian]

a 4250 wouldn't do jack all...it would DESTROY the performance, since in crossfire the cards run at identical speeds....using the LOWEST gpu in the pair...
And besides that is talking about if it would work at all, which it wouldn't since the cards need to be of the same family; a 4870 can xfire with a 4830, but not with a 4650. I think the only exception is the 3xxx series which can also pair with a 2xxx series (I THINK).

In short, pairing a 5770 with the igp 4250 wouldn't work, and if it somehow did, it would completely destroy the performance of the 5770, which is at least 10x more powerful.

There seems to be some confusion as to whether the 4250 crossfiring with a 5450 works or not. It breaks the family barrier if it does, but it's still shit anyway. :P

[Animeniax]

Just found out from a buddy about this bad boy: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103872
AMD Athlon II X3 445 Rana 3.1GHz 3 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core CPU. You can unlock the fourth core and L3 cache and it's the same as the Phenom II X4 at half the price.

[Killa-Eyez]

Euhm, damn?

[Animeniax]

Euhm, damn?

Yeah, the things you find out about when you talk to people, eh?

So the build as it currently stands:

1. APEVIA X-QPACK-NW-BK/420 Black Aluminum 1.0 w/ ABS plastic front panel MicroATX Desktop Computer Case 420W Power Supply
2. GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
3. EVGA 01G-P3-1373-AR GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) Superclocked EE 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support ...
4. AMD Athlon II X3 445 Rana 3.1GHz Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core Desktop Processor ADX445WFGMBOX
5. G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7D-4GBRM

$516+ $10shipping.

[Killa-Eyez]

Here's a list of a system I put together for a friend of mine (in order of how I put it together)...

Coolermaster Centurion 534 Chassis
Coolermaster iGreen Power 500W Power Supply
Abit Fatal1ty FP-IN9 SLI Motherboard
Intel Core 2 Duo E6420 Processor
Coolermaster Hyper L3 Cooling
Corsair XMS2 TWIN2X2048-6400C4 Memory
Asus EN7950GT/HTDP/512M Graphics Card
Creative Soundblaster X-Fi XtremeMusic Sound Card
Hitachi Deskstar T7K500 500GB HD
Hitachi Deskstar T7K500 320GB HD
Lite-on LH-16D1P (Black) DVD-Rom (In Europe only)
Lite-on LH-20A1H (Black) DVD-RW
TEAC 3,5" Diskette Drive 1,44MB (Black) / 8 in 1 Cardreader (In Europe only)
Logitech G11 Gaming Keyboard
Razer Copperhead Tempest Blue Mouse
Logitech Z-4 Speakers (Don't ask why, he has 7.1 output)
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium (NL, 64-bit, OEM)

He got an overall score of 5.0 on his Windows Experience (3.0 and above being sufficient). More info here.
The whole list costs € 1496,77. Do the math!

So yeah, the dude like totally ass-raped this rig. Inert boot times, time/date settings screwed after every boot, system hangs every 5 seconds.. Hell, there's even rust stains on the outside of the chassis cause some cat (not his, it's a long story) had to go pee-pee. Don't worry, they're all dead (one almost) and so he decided after 4 years of agony, the crib being practically cat-less and all, it was time to upgrade.
I must say, this one's a beast;

Lian Li ArmorSuit PC-P50R (Black) Chassis
Lian Li EX-332N Int. HD Cage + Fan
OCZ Z Series 1000W Modular Power Supply
Asus Sabertooth X58 Motherboard
Intel Core i7 960 Processor
Cooler Master V6 GT Cooling
Kingston ValueRAM KVR1066D3N7/2G 3X Memory
Asus ENGTX560 Ti DCII/2DI/1GD5 SLI 2X Graphics Card
WD Caviar Black 1TB HD
Samsung SpinPoint F1 1TB HD*
Samsung SH-S223L DVD-RW
Kingston FCR-HS219/1 19-in-1 Cardreader
Logitech G11 Gaming Keyboard*
Razer Lachesis Mouse*
Logitech Z-4 Speakers* (Don't ask why, he still has 7.1 output)

*Pre-owned parts. Not included in final price.

The total amount came to an honest € 1554,90, € 58,13 more than the previous one. Grab ya calc's!

The chassis comes with 4 loud ass fans for airflow, sounds horrible. So replacement fans are mandatory.
He bought Vista last time, I talked him out of giving M$ more money and went pirate on it with Windows 7 Ultimate (NL, 64-bit, OEM). Windows Experience = 5.9 (low HD speed).

@Animeniax: So was the latest set up a go and is it running flawlessly? Or have you made any changes to the composition? Updates!

[Buffalobiian]

The chassis comes with 4 loud ass fans for airflow, sounds horrible. So replacement fans are mandatory.

Fans by Noctua, Nexus and Scythe are great replacements. See whichever one's cheapest. If he's into the silent side of things, he can mod the cables to make them run at 7v instead of 12v. To get the best of both performance and silent worlds, he can dish out a little more money for a fan controller to automatically adjust the fans up and down. I can give a recommendation here if you're interested.

Any reason for the CoolerMaster cooler? I don't think they're that great. Is he looking for quieter cooling, or overclocking with that? In either case, he's better off with either a Prolima Megahalems, Thermalright Ultra-120 extreme Rev. C or a Noctua NH-D14. Costlier, but worth it IMO.

[Killa-Eyez]

Fans by Noctua, Nexus and Scythe are great replacements. See whichever one's cheapest. If he's into the silent side of things, he can mod the cables to make them run at 7v instead of 12v. To get the best of both performance and silent worlds, he can dish out a little more money for a fan controller to automatically adjust the fans up and down. I can give a recommendation here if you're interested.

Any reason for the CoolerMaster cooler? I don't think they're that great. Is he looking for quieter cooling, or overclocking with that? In either case, he's better off with either a Prolima Megahalems, Thermalright Ultra-120 extreme Rev. C or a Noctua NH-D14. Costlier, but worth it IMO.

I'm going to buy the fans for him as a gift, since he gave me his old rig for me to salvage, and was already kinda set on Scythe. But I'll check the others out also. No need for a fan controller since I'm the one buying.

The CoolerMaster V6 was his choice. He liked the design and different color led's and what not and he's not into oc-ing. So it may be a bit noisy at times but I think he'll be satisfied once the case fans have been replaced.

[Animeniax]

@Animeniax: So was the latest set up a go and is it running flawlessly? Or have you made any changes to the composition? Updates!

You built that monster for your friend? Is he loaded?

I never built the superminibox. Decided it wasn't worth $500 for a PC to play MW2 at work, which was the main purpose of building it. I'm probably going to get an iPad 2 instead.