Gays, population growth, the environment, clouds!

[Assertn]

This is why the populations of the vast number of Western countries are dying out... fertility rates in Europe are not even at the required levels to replace the existing population levels, let alone grow.

You're an idiot. If there were a billion less people in the world, we would all stand to benefit from it. Unfortunately, the reality is that the world population will always increase until its no longer able to sustain us.

We need more gay people.

[anime050]

You're an idiot. If there were a billion less people in the world, we would all stand to benefit from it. Unfortunately, the reality is that the world population will always increase until its no longer able to sustain us.

We need more gay people.

Also more AIDS, desu wa.

Or at least a new disease/plague.

[bagandscalpel]

I like where this is going~

Starting from an "innocently" inane topic about two guys making happy, it has now entered the realm of implications about indirect death and destruction ~desu.

[PSJ]

I love how your comment fits with your avatar. That's just priceless.

[DB_Hunter]

AssertnFailure:

Either you are being satirical, or you have serious issues with your preception of the world. Less people in the world would be better? Are you thinking in simple terms as "less people = less food (etc) needed for humanity"? The reasons for world poverty lie in politics and the kind of economic systems that are implemented in world today, not because the Earth can't provide enough resources.

Zimbabwe for example was known as the breadbasket for Africa, yet its own people are starting to live in hunger now (apparantly) because of the policies of its government. It could feed all of Africa if managed properly. Similar stories with Bangladesh, Pakistan and Argentina. The list could go on, but the point is to solve the resource crisis we need political solutions. The problems would still exist even if there were less people but the mentality was the same.

PSJ:

Do you honestly believe the population of Europe is decreasing because of people having fun or because people are homosexuals? You're saying that people should all breed like rabbits in order for the country to survive? Is that what people in your country do?

That's too simplistic an understanding of what I am saying. And I live in the UK, where we clearly do not do this.

You do know that homosexuality is a very natural thing right? Homosexuality have been spotted in alot of diffrent animal societies.

I don't believe in equating humans with animals when it comes to behaviour. Humans clearly posses an intellect to discern right and wrong, animals do not. Comparing yourself to a pengiun or a goat that is homosexual (and I don't even know the authenticity of these claims) is plain silly. Not even worth discussing.

It's also freedom of choice, if a person is in fact attracted to the same sex it's his choice if he wants to go through with it or not. I can't believe that you compared homosexuality to pedophillia. Pedophillia takes advantage of kids who don't have knowledge about what it means and therefore can't make a judgement for themselves, while a homosexual is a grown person who is perfectly clear about what it is about. It's not the same thing.

Homosexuality was once considered a mental illness (note I don't subscribe to this view). It was evetually legalised because of your very own reasoning, due to the principle of sexual freedom. The people who were homosexual used this argument successfully to get it legalised. It didn't happen overnight, it took time. The same will happen with pedophillia, because as long as all people subscribe to this view there will always be legitimate grounds to argue this point. Fine I concede it may not go down to your 1 month old baby, but it won't be far off.

The population of Europe is decreasing largly because women have children later in their lives and as a result of that they don't give birth to as many children as women did before. Alot of people are studying to their late 20's and even after that they may not get a secure job for a few years which makes them wait until they have a good enviroment for a child to be born into. It has nothing to do with "having fun". That is more or less a result of the long studying period alot of people go through.

I agree with everything there apart from the bit in bold (kind of). What I am trying to get at is that 'having fun' is an extension of the concepts of sexual freedom, freedom of association etc. So 'having fun' is not the problem per se.

Take a step back and think why people are doing all of the above more now. For fun? How many people think its fun to work? How many people think its fun to study? Very few I guess, like the ones who are lucky enough to work or study in the field they like without having to worry about money. The societies we live in now are such people are having to "work" harder increasingly simply to maintain their lives. In a house now both partners are having to work to make ends meet comfortably.

This is a combination of essentially what are Capitalist policies and values at play. People have been indoctrinated to believe that success in life is personal gratification. So people now work harder than ever, are more liberal with their desires than every before. People have stopped thinking about the wider good about society, and now it is all me, me, me.

The countries of Europe are working on ways to fix the problem of the decreasing population and i can tell you one thing, they aren't banning "having fun" or homosexuality. They are trying to make it more benetifial to get children and the more children you get, the more benefits you get. Immigrants is also a good way to solve the problem, for example a decreasing work force. Sweden did this in the 60's and it worked out fine.

I know of what Europe is trying to do, I live in the UK. It won't work. Temporary governmental policies are no substitute for decades of mental conditioning. There is not one single country in Europe that meets the required fertility rate even to replace the current population, with many far below this rate.

Immigration won't work either. Imigrants are reluctant to give up their values, and the host nations don't like this. Europe needs immigrants to keep its economies going. However they wan't to treat immigrants like resources, not people. Europe wants to keep its cake and eat it also, which can't happen. It wants immigrants to give up their values and work or get out. Since this is not happening, I'm afraid the future isn't bright for Europe. Either immigrant values will take over in Europe, or the indigenous population will die out.

And forget about what happened in the 60's, it was a totally different era.

Edit: Just read Y's posts. Love his religious zeal in defending homosexuality. With his simple reasoning thats devoid of understanding politics or values, he would fit right in during the good old dark ages of Europe.

[bagandscalpel]

Either immigrant values will take over in Europe, or the indigenous population will die out.

And forget about what happened in the 60's, it was a totally different era.

Sorry, but I lo~ove how these two remarks work off of each other so well! Let's see, taking things solely according to this logic...

In a post-culture-apocalyptic Europe:

Person-whose-ancestors-were-immigrants A: "People back then were so craaaaazy!"

Person B: "Forget what happened in the 00's, it was a totally different era."

But hey, I feel your pain, natural selection, no?

[Honoko]

Just as an FYI for you guys, The Economist recently came out with an article on the declining fertility rate in Europe and what that would mean within a 5 and 10-year projection. I tried to find a link to it but unfortunately, you have to subscribe/pay in order to access it. If anyone has an account w/ this publication, could they copy and paste it here?

My point is, DB isn't exactly pulling all of this out of his ass. His arguments are based on what researchers have observed about Europe's population trends.

Also, I haven't read the article myself- just heard someone speak about it so but from what that person got out of it, the article also offered some theories on why the population is in decline, and perhaps also suggested the necessity of changing one's general outlook in life. Again, if I read the article myself, I'd go in more detail. You'll just have to take my word for it, I guess =P

[KitKat]

All issues of homosexuality aside, I don't think that a declining birth rate is either A) a sign of rampant homosexuality taking over society or B) as much of a problem as you think. Decline in birth rate correlates to an increased standard of living in the country. If your country is poor, you want to have a lot of children so that some of them will survive and take care of you in your old age. They're your retirement plan. In much of the Western world, there isn't much chance of children dying from flu or diarrhea or malaria, so people have about as many as they think they'd like to raise.

As for how much of a problem declining birth rates is, it might translate into a worrisome societal conundrum, but can only be a good thing for the earth. Our man-made societal and political systems can continually adapt. Our environment is reaching its limit of being able to adapt to our habits and lifestyles. We may be the most 'advanced' generation of humans, but we're also the most resource-hungry. The earth cannot sustain the way we're living. If the population decreases, it might just help stave off total environmental catastrophe for a bit longer.

[SK]

As a staunch Neo-Platonic/Straussian/Stoic, I condemn all homosexual acts, except ones between females.

[Assertn]

Are you thinking in simple terms as "less people = less food (etc) needed for humanity"? The reasons for world poverty lie in politics and the kind of economic systems that are implemented in world today, not because the Earth can't provide enough resources.

I hear statistical theories on how natural gas will be exhausted within the next 10 years...
theories on how water tables in North America will dry up within 10-20 years...
For practically every single adult in America, there's a car polluting the atmosphere. Scientists have conservatively presumed that even if every single CO2 emission was stopped right now, there would still be enough in the atmosphere to increase the temperature of the planet by 10 degrees within this century.

All this directly correlates to population.

Kitkat's right, politics and economics can change to meet our needs, but the environment cannot.

[Edort4]

Environmental science is quite in his first steps so even scientist dont know much about it (thus given completely different answers). But all of them say that earth is already overpopulated (some say that it can withstand 9 billion ppl but I found it hard to believe seeing how earth deteriorates rapidly) , and that is not good.

On the other hand the birth rate reduced to its most simplistic form means that having kids means: Less free time and less money for your hobbies (or perversions).

[Winged Dancer]

Also more AIDS, desu wa.

Or at least a new disease/plague.

YES.

I dunno if you were serious or joking, but whatever. I'm all for a new wave of black plague. And a new glaciation. Anything to clear the way. Seriously, the world has way too many people, I can't believe someone worries about decreasing birth-rate... so yeah, I cheer for the planet. Go, Earth, go! Some more earthquakes wouldn't be bad!

On homosexuality...

Whatever. Some gay people have a bunch of sex with whomever, some don't. It's their life, I don't care.

[Lucifus]

On the Gay Issue...
Raised in Jamaica, taught in Jamaica.....nothing more needs to be said. =S

[Board of Command]

You don't have to be gay to take it up the ass. Look at inmates.

[Terracosmo]

DB_Hunter, 83 years old, last survivor on Earth: "Well I'm standing here on a cliff surrounded by water in the middle of what I think is the Atlantic Ocean. The entire world has been blown to smithereens by bombs, there isn't any food, not any drinkable water, no widescreen TV with bad adultery on them, no people, not anything. FUCKING GAY PEOPLE! YOU'VE DOOMED US ALL!"



This has been a joke "sort-of" from Terra entertainment stating the hilarity of being concerned about what gayness will bring to the end of the world when there are about 2914891284 issues that are more important - and also definitely more dangerous - when it comes to the planet's survival. Such as the long-awaited ban on canned shrimps. CANNED SHRIMPS WTF!! YOU CAN'T EAT THAT!



SEX!!!!1111


Also I updated my signature with a quote that DB uttered when I visited his home last night and attempted to change his abyssmal view on society (I think I succeeded)

[Lefty]

The way I look at it religion will always hate gay people, gay people will always hate religion, and I will sit on the side lines with a tub of popcorn and watch the insanity insue. Granted I will be switching to the middle east on occasion, it's a classic i can't miss.

[Spiegel]

I personally have no issue with Homosexuality, It is not my preference but if someone lives that lifestyle it is up to them to live that lifestyle, the same could be said in opposite that it is my choice to live my lifestyle. So I feel there is no point in arguing about it, people will do it, that is their choice. Just like it is my choice to eat this delicious creme-filled doughnut... mmm... This thread was an interesting read though. I just thought I would put in my two cents and run like hell.

P.S. Where are the clouds in this thread... I WANT MY CLOUDS!!