Gays, population growth, the environment, clouds!

[DB_Hunter]

AssertnFailure:

Either you are being satirical, or you have serious issues with your preception of the world. Less people in the world would be better? Are you thinking in simple terms as "less people = less food (etc) needed for humanity"? The reasons for world poverty lie in politics and the kind of economic systems that are implemented in world today, not because the Earth can't provide enough resources.

Zimbabwe for example was known as the breadbasket for Africa, yet its own people are starting to live in hunger now (apparantly) because of the policies of its government. It could feed all of Africa if managed properly. Similar stories with Bangladesh, Pakistan and Argentina. The list could go on, but the point is to solve the resource crisis we need political solutions. The problems would still exist even if there were less people but the mentality was the same.

PSJ:

Do you honestly believe the population of Europe is decreasing because of people having fun or because people are homosexuals? You're saying that people should all breed like rabbits in order for the country to survive? Is that what people in your country do?

That's too simplistic an understanding of what I am saying. And I live in the UK, where we clearly do not do this.

You do know that homosexuality is a very natural thing right? Homosexuality have been spotted in alot of diffrent animal societies.

I don't believe in equating humans with animals when it comes to behaviour. Humans clearly posses an intellect to discern right and wrong, animals do not. Comparing yourself to a pengiun or a goat that is homosexual (and I don't even know the authenticity of these claims) is plain silly. Not even worth discussing.

It's also freedom of choice, if a person is in fact attracted to the same sex it's his choice if he wants to go through with it or not. I can't believe that you compared homosexuality to pedophillia. Pedophillia takes advantage of kids who don't have knowledge about what it means and therefore can't make a judgement for themselves, while a homosexual is a grown person who is perfectly clear about what it is about. It's not the same thing.

Homosexuality was once considered a mental illness (note I don't subscribe to this view). It was evetually legalised because of your very own reasoning, due to the principle of sexual freedom. The people who were homosexual used this argument successfully to get it legalised. It didn't happen overnight, it took time. The same will happen with pedophillia, because as long as all people subscribe to this view there will always be legitimate grounds to argue this point. Fine I concede it may not go down to your 1 month old baby, but it won't be far off.

The population of Europe is decreasing largly because women have children later in their lives and as a result of that they don't give birth to as many children as women did before. Alot of people are studying to their late 20's and even after that they may not get a secure job for a few years which makes them wait until they have a good enviroment for a child to be born into. It has nothing to do with "having fun". That is more or less a result of the long studying period alot of people go through.

I agree with everything there apart from the bit in bold (kind of). What I am trying to get at is that 'having fun' is an extension of the concepts of sexual freedom, freedom of association etc. So 'having fun' is not the problem per se.

Take a step back and think why people are doing all of the above more now. For fun? How many people think its fun to work? How many people think its fun to study? Very few I guess, like the ones who are lucky enough to work or study in the field they like without having to worry about money. The societies we live in now are such people are having to "work" harder increasingly simply to maintain their lives. In a house now both partners are having to work to make ends meet comfortably.

This is a combination of essentially what are Capitalist policies and values at play. People have been indoctrinated to believe that success in life is personal gratification. So people now work harder than ever, are more liberal with their desires than every before. People have stopped thinking about the wider good about society, and now it is all me, me, me.

The countries of Europe are working on ways to fix the problem of the decreasing population and i can tell you one thing, they aren't banning "having fun" or homosexuality. They are trying to make it more benetifial to get children and the more children you get, the more benefits you get. Immigrants is also a good way to solve the problem, for example a decreasing work force. Sweden did this in the 60's and it worked out fine.

I know of what Europe is trying to do, I live in the UK. It won't work. Temporary governmental policies are no substitute for decades of mental conditioning. There is not one single country in Europe that meets the required fertility rate even to replace the current population, with many far below this rate.

Immigration won't work either. Imigrants are reluctant to give up their values, and the host nations don't like this. Europe needs immigrants to keep its economies going. However they wan't to treat immigrants like resources, not people. Europe wants to keep its cake and eat it also, which can't happen. It wants immigrants to give up their values and work or get out. Since this is not happening, I'm afraid the future isn't bright for Europe. Either immigrant values will take over in Europe, or the indigenous population will die out.

And forget about what happened in the 60's, it was a totally different era.

Edit: Just read Y's posts. Love his religious zeal in defending homosexuality. With his simple reasoning thats devoid of understanding politics or values, he would fit right in during the good old dark ages of Europe.