Naruto 346

[Munsu]

I think I'm going to split the thread with our discussion, as to many of it seems off-topic to the chapter.

You never explained the context that English is not your first language and just kept saying I was taking things out of context. However you are just pointing out the fact that you were unsure of the definition, not that it was a mistake due to ignorance of of what should and must mean. You knew what should and must mean.

Yeah, "should" was a poor word in retospect since I'm defining the term when it really wasn't my whole intention, I got concerned with the possiblity of a counterargument proving a conclusion of deductive reasoning inaccurate so I said "should". So if I were to define deductive reasoning I would surely not use "should", but when I incorporate the possiblity of a conclusion being wrong, "must" seemed too strong. So the context was that I wasn't only trying to define the term, I was also applying possibilites, that do exist, of that conclusion being wrong even when deductively concluded. One has to be open to the possibility that new factors and premises may arise that will make your previous conclusion inaccurate, hence why theories are often disproven and are very hard to turn in to Law.
The other part of what I mean by context, was that I was merely trying to point out that no matter the type of reasoning used, the conclusion is contingent on the accuracy of it's premises (so the accuracy of my definition wasn't as important as aknowleding that both types of reasoning need truthful premises). That even if the premises, in an inductive reasoning, can't prove for certain the conclusion, the premises (by themselves) should be accurate hence why I think that no matter what type of reasoning is used, there's no excuse for having a faulty premise in the argument. So in all, even if the conclusion is uncertain the premises used should be truthful in order to be used in that argument.

About English not being my first language is not an excuse for using a word wrongfully, it was an excuse as to why I didn't use a better word instead. But I think if you consider my intention explained above, I think you may agree that "should" wasn't that bad of a choice.

Umm... I already said all that with exception to my addition at the end. I was just repeating myself.

Yeah, but not in a real organized manner that I could get my grasp on. I still think those premises alone won't convince me of your conclusion, but I'll argue about it later.

When I tell people to look up stuff, it's not an insult. I've been a teacher throughout my life in one way or another and I've learned it's better for people to find and figure out answers on their own than me just laying it in front of them. The process and finding and figuring stuff out on your own helps you retain it in memory.

That's fine. Just keep in mind that I don't like to post about things I don't know about. If I post my opinion or something I either know what it is or have done my research, so when you tell me to look things up it really bothers me because it means that I have to repeat once again what I said, and explain myself once again unncessesarily so it irritates me; plus it's condenscending, if you think I used something wrongfully say you don't understand what I mean, because more often than not it is a misunderstanding and that's usually true with everyone. Believe me when I say that I've been trying alot not to curse or insult, that's how much I wanted an actual discussion, I'll consider my irritation due to a misunderstanding of your intentions.

Anyways the reason I "gave you that one" was because we can't continue that same dicussion that was going in circles here, it was simply off-topic, this wasn't the place to keep discussing it so there was a need to get beyond that argument and focus on something that has to do with the content of Naruto and chapter 346.

Oro said he can't.

Oro also said it was impossible that Sasuke was doing all that in the dimension he created, yet Sasuke was willfully doing as he pleased in there pretty much. Or as you say, you can just say that Oro was simply being arrogant. In fact, Oro himself is astonished on how strong Sasuke has become... Oro even says that him being called genius is pitiful infront of the current Sasuke.

Kabuto said he can't and was shocked at the possibility.

He also seemed shocked at what Sasuke did in the dimension and when he was going to say that Oro got absorbed he seemed shocked too. Him being shocked wasn't only for the possibilty of Sasuke killing him. He also said that Sasuke wouldn't be able to "whistand the ritual", yet Sasuke did so he might also be shocked for that alone.

He didn't.

Yep, I still think that he didn't for some other reason that's unknown to us at the moment. First they were in some sort of dimension that Oro created. We don't know the properties of that dimension or what rules it may have.

He fell into Oro's Genjutsu (even though he said none of Oro's jutsus work on him AFTER he had already fallen into it for all you deductive arguers)

Which Genjutsu are you reffering to? I don't think that the creation of another dimension is genjutsu and if those other attacks occuring on the dimension are Genjutsu I thought that Sasuke took care of them without problem. I don't see how this supports your premise though even if it were true.

Oro apparently created an actual dimension inside of him, genjutsu is only an illusionary technique if I recall correctly.

I'll add, it's obvious he wanted to kill Oro. I think he actually says it, but I don't want to look it up. He does say he doesn't need Oro. That points to him not needing any type of benefit he might get from absorbing him. So it's doubtful to me he wanted to absorb and not actually physically kill him. You can argue that he's just a sadistic mofo. (For all you deductive whiners out there.) However being sadistic hasn't really been shown as part of his character.

Sasuke didn't seem to have knowledge of how the ritual occurred nor of what the seal actually did to him, so when he wanted to kill Oro he wasn't taking into acount what the seal did to him nor having to fight in another dimension. So, in this new dimension for all we know Sasuke can't kill Orochimaru, we don't know what effects the new dimension may have on Sasuke's body if Orochimaru were to die. When he said he didn't need Oro it was meant as he didn't need his teaching anymore, he never made such a statement after Oro started the ritual.

I'll merge my posts later, and JaySee please focus on this post instead of the one above, don't want to go off-topic once again. We can talk about types of reasonings, semantics, etc. some other time.