Naruto Shippuuden Episode 13

[boilerph]

Ok now the thread is going from one broad leap to Kakashi having Mangekyou to everyone putting words in Kisame's mouth. Kisame never said that Itachi shouldn't use it because it strains his eyes. He just warned him against using it too much, we have seen that same warning given to people throughout this show and it was because of Chakra consumption i.e. Kakashi telling Sasuke he could only use the Chidoro twice. Making the leap that Kakashi would hear this and decide on the move damaging eyesight permanently is crazy. There's no precedent for that kind of warning meaning that anywhere else in the show. The closest thing was Lee's Lotus use back in the day and that was still not permanent damage. They show the flashback to what Kisame said as proof of Kakashi's statement about the Chakra requirements of the move.


Kakashi knowing about the eyesight deterioration is a self-contained statement that we can do nothing but speculate about. Kakashi having the Magekyou is one explanation however the other possibility, that noone has mentioned, is Kakashi found the hidden Uchiha scroll that explains the technique. I don't remember them showing Sasuke taking it with him or destroying it so it was probably still right there waiting to be found.

[animus]

Ok now the thread is going from one broad leap to Kakashi having Mangekyou to everyone putting words in Kisame's mouth. Kisame never said that Itachi shouldn't use it because it strains his eyes. He just warned him against using it too much, we have seen that same warning given to people throughout this show and it was because of Chakra consumption i.e. Kakashi telling Sasuke he could only use the Chidoro twice. Making the leap that Kakashi would hear this and decide on the move damaging eyesight permanently is crazy. There's no precedent for that kind of warning meaning that anywhere else in the show. The closest thing was Lee's Lotus use back in the day and that was still not permanent damage. They show the flashback to what Kisame said as proof of Kakashi's statement about the Chakra requirements of the move.


Kakashi knowing about the eyesight deterioration is a self-contained statement that we can do nothing but speculate about. Kakashi having the Magekyou is one explanation however the other possibility, that noone has mentioned, is Kakashi found the hidden Uchiha scroll that explains the technique. I don't remember them showing Sasuke taking it with him or destroying it so it was probably still right there waiting to be found.

Maybe you should rewatch the episode before you make that statement. This is Kisame's exact quote from DB's translation, "Itachi-san, it's dangerous for you to use your eyes too much." Kakashi himself then said, "Besides using a large amount of Chakra, using that technique poses a huge risk to your eyes. Right, Itachi?" And Itachi's answer to that was "An impressive analysis for only having it seen once." Meaning he is not only praising Kakashi, but affirming to the fact that it does in fact damage the eyes. Why do you think that flashback was even included? Because it led up to Kakashi's explanation of the dangers of the Mang Sharingan. Or do you think the huge risk to his eyes is getting teary eyed whenever you look at the sun? Sure, Kisame's words were not something as clearcut as "They damage your eyes." but when you take it in context with Kakashi's statements they compliment eachother.

[boilerph]

Maybe you should rewatch the episode before you make that statement. This is Kisame's exact quote from DB's translation, "Itachi-san, it's dangerous for you to use your eyes too much." Kakashi himself then said, "Besides using a large amount of Chakra, using that technique poses a huge risk to your eyes. Right, Itachi?" And Itachi's answer to that was "An impressive analysis for only having it seen once." Meaning he is not only praising Kakashi, but affirming to the fact that it does in fact damage the eyes. Why do you think that flashback was even included? Because it led up to Kakashi's explanation of the dangers of the Mang Sharingan. Or do you think the huge risk to his eyes is getting teary eyed whenever you look at the sun? Sure, Kisame's words were not something as clearcut as "They damage your eyes." but when you take it in context with Kakashi's statements they compliment eachother.

Ok but you are still combining Kakashi and Kisame's statement into one. The point I was making is there is no way that Kakashi is going to infer permanent eye damage from "It's dangerous to use your eyes too much." That same warning has been given many times to many different characters and it was always in regards to chakra usage. There is no precedent set for Kakashi hearing that and thinking eye damage. In general, we interpret what we hear based on past experiences and thus Kakashi would just interpret that as a warning about the chakra strain of the technique.

That fact that Kakashi uses the word "besides" is implying that on top of the chakra requirements Kakashi had made an extra insight into the dangers of the technique. I still think finding the scroll is the most plausible solution.

[Assertn]

I kinda assumed Kakashi's "how bad has your eyesight become" question was metaphorical, as a way to reveal that Itachi has neglected to notice something.

All of your points revolve around the assumption that he's saying the statement literally.

[animus]

Ok but you are still combining Kakashi and Kisame's statement into one. The point I was making is there is no way that Kakashi is going to infer permanent eye damage from "It's dangerous to use your eyes too much." That same warning has been given many times to many different characters and it was always in regards to chakra usage. There is no precedent set for Kakashi hearing that and thinking eye damage. In general, we interpret what we hear based on past experiences and thus Kakashi would just interpret that as a warning about the chakra strain of the technique.

That fact that Kakashi uses the word "besides" is implying that on top of the chakra requirements Kakashi had made an extra insight into the dangers of the technique. I still think finding the scroll is the most plausible solution.

They're Akatsuki members, why would Kisame give a warning as something so trivial as Chakra usage to an experienced Sharingan user. Mangekyou Sharingan is not always used, and Kisame just said it's dangerous. If Kisame was worried about chakra usage as a problem, he'd have told Itachi to not have Sharingan on constantly. Cause if you look throughout the series, there's hardly a time when Itachi doesn't have them on. Again, like in an earlier post of mine, people are disregarding Itachi's next statement of "Kakashi-san, you couldn't have..." and his shocked reaction to Kakashi's statement of how bad has his eye sight gotten.

[boilerph]

They're Akatsuki members, why would Kisame give a warning as something so trivial as Chakra usage to an experienced Sharingan user. Mangekyou Sharingan is not always used, and Kisame just said it's dangerous. If Kisame was worried about chakra usage as a problem, he'd have told Itachi to not have Sharingan on constantly. Cause if you look throughout the series, there's hardly a time when Itachi doesn't have them on. Again, like in an earlier post of mine, people are disregarding Itachi's next statement of "Kakashi-san, you couldn't have..." and his shocked reaction to Kakashi's statement of how bad has his eye sight gotten.

You have a good point, but along those same lines I can't imagine a guy who keeps his Sharingan on at all times is going to sit around the campfire and tell the other Akatsuki members the weakness of his trump card power. These guys are all power-hungry murderers and you know they have to all have plans for how to take out the other members if it ever came down to it. I honestly think that Kisame's statement to Itachi was meant to calm him down and keep him from getting too wrapped up in the fight. They weren't in Konoha to fight and Kisame might have been afraid of Itachi's "battle-lust" so to speak.

edit

I kinda assumed Kakashi's "how bad has your eyesight become" question was metaphorical, as a way to reveal that Itachi has neglected to notice something.

All of your points revolve around the assumption that he's saying the statement literally.

I hadn't really thought of it this way and it would explain Itachi's shocked look. Kakashi has been shown many times to be an expert at using words to get to his opponenet and that would be a good way of implying some sort of trump card for Kakashi's side.


oops sorry for double post

It's fine. Consider this your freebie, try to use the Edit button in the future and, as always, read your Gotwoot Bible
masa

[DeathscytheVII]

I wonder just how many people in this 'how bad is your eyesight' discussion are reading the manga

Meh, when he said that. I just think kakashi is pointing out an obvious side effect of using mangekyou sharingan that he found out from his own knowledge of sharingan. Whether he has it or not its fun to speculate but I'll wait and see. Besides, isn't kakashi's best friend dead?

[DarthEnderX]

You know what, I don't even care anymore.

I'll find out the answer Thursday night.

[Crash]

You know what, I don't even care anymore.

I'll find out the answer Thursday night.

Maybe, but my gut feeling is that this weeks episode is going to be Naruto fighting in Itachi's genjutsu the whole time. Which actually wouldn't be bad since i'd like to see them focus and flesh out one fight this time instead of hoping back and fourth with some mediocre action.

[DB_Hunter]

Don't count on it. By the looks of the preview the majority of it will be the Kisame Vs Gai fight, with snippets of the Itachi Genjutsu thrown in.

[Crash]

Don't count on it. By the looks of the preview the majority of it will be the Kisame Vs Gai fight, with snippets of the Itachi Genjutsu thrown in.

Gah, i never watch the previews because i like to keep the next episode a surprise. I really hope they don't do as much skipping around as they did in this episode. Ideally there should be an episode dedicated completely to each fight.

[KCMmmmm]

Maybe, but my gut feeling is that this weeks episode is going to be Naruto fighting in Itachi's genjutsu the whole time. Which actually wouldn't be bad since i'd like to see them focus and flesh out one fight this time instead of hoping back and fourth with some mediocre action.

Yeah, that really annoys me as well. Just when I get back into whatever is going on in the current fight, they switch it to another one. Worse yet, is the shift from an action scene to some distant country with nothing important transpiring there. Like showing Naruto fighting in the Genjutsu, switching to the Gai vs Kisame fight, and then making a switch back to the sand village, where they are all talking about what might be happening all the while interpreting breaking mugs as signs of ill fortune. What a waste of time.