Um....what? Here I actually come up with probably the most micro-analyzed interpretation of the exchange and you reply with this nonsense?Originally Posted by JaySee
I feel like I'm wasting my time here.
Animus, you seem halfway there to make some sort of rational counter-argument, right? Care to challenge my post?
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
EXACTLY... go back and take some reading comprehension.
If you had some basic understanding, you'd get that #3 reveals a lot #1 DID NOT. Hence the reaction difference between #2 and #4.It doesn't make any sense to you because you either have bad reading comprehension, or no common sense.
Lols, you're a fuckin retard, JaySee.EXACTLY... go back and take some reading comprehension.
If you had some basic understanding, you'd get that #3 reveals a lot #1 DID NOT. Hence the reaction difference between #2 and #4.
Do you honestly think Kakashi was trying to ask Itachi a question in #1, just because it ended with a question mark? You're saying #1 sounded like Kakashi had no idea if MS hurts a person's eyes and pretends to be genuinely curious? Itachi's response in #2 even stated something along the lines of "I'm impressed you learned so much from just one confrontation with it." So why would Itachi not think that Kakashi knew?
Screw the literary comprehension, you need to learn basic social interaction, son. This has become highly lollable. I can't even tell if I'm supposed to be taking you seriously or not.
Last edited by Assertn; Wed, 07-11-2007 at 11:33 AM.
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
Whether or not that Mangekyou Sharingan takes a toll on the eyes, I doubt it will play a part in the storyline. If we had a Sharingan-less Itachi going around, Sasuke would kill him faster and won't prove much of a fight to us.
Last edited by BananaFob; Wed, 07-11-2007 at 09:05 PM.
But here's the thing , with all that being said, you seem to be ignoring #1 and #2 alot and focusing alot more on the sudden change in Itachi's expression in between #3 and #4.
Ch 257, p. 8
Kakashi: Not only does it use up a huge amount of chakra, It would seem the jutsu carries a great deal of risk for your eyes too, doesnt it ... Itachi.
Itachi: Having fought me once, you have made quite the analysis
Courtesy Shannaro scanlation.
This establishes that Itachi's eyes are indeed at risk, regardless of what type. I hope we can all agree with that.
Then this risk can either be Itachi going blind from using MS OR something else.
Case 1: Itachi's eyes are at risk in some other fashion and he isn't going blind
If this is the case, then what you suggest makes perfect sense and the blindness should be interpreted as just a metaphor and nothing else.
Case 2: Itachi is going blind from using MS
Sub-case 1: Itachi already believes that when Kakashi first mentions the risk to his eyes, he is referring to blindness.
In this situation, the sudden change in expression b/w #3 and #4 can once again be the result of Kakashi using #3 to suggest that he has acquired MS from right under his nose, and at the same time also taunting Itachi on his condition.
Sub-case 2: Itachi believes that all Kakashi knows is that MS puts your eyes at risk.
Then the sudden change between #3 and #4 can be result of Itachi being astonished that Kakashi knows the exact nature of of his problem (which can only be known through personal experience and Kakashi having acquired the MS himself)
Does all this definitively prove Itachi going blind? Absolutely not.
But it does suggest that Itachi going blind is a possible outcome and does not, in any way, conflict with the exact nature of this conversation between Itachi and Kakashi.
I think MS posing a serious risk to Itachi's eyes is an undisputed fact. And when most of us think of such a risk, we think of blindness. The fact that kakashi later mentions blindness, be it metaphorically or otherwise, seems to solidify the idea a bit more for me.
Whether Itachi is going blind or not is pretty much completely at Kishimoto's own discretion, but the point I'm trying to make is that the exchange between Itachi and Kakashi is definitely insufficient in drawing any definite conclusions that would lead to this.
For the most part, you seem to agree with me that the response by Itachi was mostly due to his realization that Kakashi does in fact have MS.
I'll let this speak for itself. It seems JaySee's doing a good enough job contradicting himself without my help.
@KCMmmmm: Ohhhhhh snap! =]
Last edited by Assertn; Wed, 07-11-2007 at 07:43 PM.
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
While SPLASH! made an excellent argument as to why MS damages your eyes, I think Banana here has the right idea: I seriously doubt it will play into the storyline significantly. If MS DOES pose a risk to your eyes (and it quite likely does) then Kakashi was only mentioning it as a way of foreshadowing it before he uses it in his fight against Deidara. In which case, everyone is right, in one way or another.Whether or not that Mangekyou Sharingan is takes a toll on the eyes, I doubt it will play a part in the storyline. If we had a Sharingan-less Itachi going around, Sasuke would kill him faster and won't prove much of a fight to us.
Um... yeah... who's the retard? YOU! <--bet you don't see the irony in that either.
There is no question mark in what Kakashi said. That's one of the punctuation deficiencies I was pointing out moron! I'm not, nor never was, saying Kakashi didn't know you idiot! Have you even finished High School English? How stupid are you? Go back and read what I quoted and actually wrote and realise how stupid you sound.
Will someone point out the obvious to this moron? He's either completely stupid or so jaded towards me he can't see what's right in front of him.
This is the only option that makes sense. Case 1 is completely idiotic. There is no metaphor. Kakashi and Itachi are talking about MS and Tsukuyomi. I've already explained why there is no metaphor and why there is a reaction difference.
Subcase 1 makes no sense. The reaction difference between #2 and #4 is too great. If Itachi thought Kakashi actually knew for sure that his eyesight was being damaged (not necessarily going blind) he would've reacted more severely.
I'm bored, so I'll hold Assertn's short-bus riding hand and show him why he's such an idiot...
#1 is wrong. Kakashi clearly ASKS that it takes a toll on Itachi's eyes. I guess you're slow brain didn't catch that because of the punctuation mistake.Conversely, let's think of it this way:
1) Kakashi says MS takes a toll on the user.
2) Itachi is impressed by Kakashi's observation.
3) Kakashi asks how bad Itachi's eyesight has become.
4) Itachi freaks out.
WRONG! #1 Kakashi is pretending not to know and making his statement in the form of a question to Itachi. #3 is where he's letting Itachi know that he already has the answer through personal experience. You're just to stupid to figure it out.Now, if we were to assume that JaySee was right, then #3 does not present anything that #1 doesn't present, right? So why would Itachi's #4 be so dramatically different from #2? It just doesn't make any sense!
WRONG! Only an idiot (oh right... it's you we're dealing with...) would assume a METAPHOR of something that was just previously stated plain and clear seconds before. You're just some moron reading too much into it because you think you're intelligent. However you missed all the clear, basic, and simple signs of what was really being said. So shut up about your literary techniques and learn basic comprehension first.However, if we consider #3 to be metaphorical in that it implies Itachi has failed to observe something important, then it does become new information, which justifies the drastically different #4 response.
You better cool it. I'm about ready to ban you on grounds of flaming. I'm pretty much convinced that you're only posting this shit to piss me off. There's no other explanation why anyone can be this dumb.
Last edited by Assertn; Wed, 07-11-2007 at 07:47 PM.
The only reason you would think he would react more severely to #2 in subcase 1 is because you are expecting the same sort of reaction as #4 in subcase 2 (because at both these points he is faced with the same knowledge, i.e Kakashi knowing he is losing his eyesight).
Be careful no to assume one scenario and try to disprove the other by measuring it up against that one. Consider them seperately.
I think the reaction difference in subcase 1 b/w 2 and 4 is explained if we consider what Kakashi said as taunt on both Itachi's condition and as a metaphor revealing he has MS. Itachi is reacting to knowledge that Kakashi has acquired the mangekyou. Of course, you will tend to disagree with this also because you do not acknowledge there could possibly be a metaphor in the first place.
Regardless, I too am of the opinion that subcase 2 is the most likely and do agree with you. However the other situations are also plausible to a certain degree, though unlikely.
Oh and I disagree about this not playing an important part later. It might very well be that the MS side effects turn out to Itachi's downfall in the fight against Sasuke.
You're forgetting that Kakashi is not making a clear defined statement at the start. He's stating a question.
CorrectShould read: "That's one of the punctuation deficiencies I was pointing out, moron." Requires a comma before moron, to separate the sentence from the person receiving it.
Incorrect. It should actually read "...nor ever was..."Should read: "I never said Kakshi didn't know, you idiot!" The triple negative needs to be taken out, and (again), separation between the sentence and the intended audience.
Correct. I don't have QA/QC people to fix my writing.Should read: "I guess your slow brain didn't catch that because of the punctuation mistake." The contraction "you're" is not proper here; use "your" instead.
MS taking a toll on the eyes does factor into the story in a major way seeing as 2 of the major characters having it and possibly a third.
Umm... nope. No contradictions what so ever in those quotes. You're just to stupid to see the connection. Living up to that FAILURE part in your nick, eh?I'll let this speak for itself. It seems JaySee's doing a good enough job contradicting himself without my help.
Someone tell Assertn to just shut up on this subject. He just keeps making an ass out of himself. Someone kindly take him aside and point out his deficiencies to him.
User is banned for consistently berating and defying mods.
Last edited by Assertn; Wed, 07-11-2007 at 08:45 PM.
Didn't we have this exact discussion in the Naruto Anime forum when the episode with the itachi/kakashi talk was shown?
I vote we make further argument on this topic a banable offense until such time that concrete proof is provided to us by kishimoto in the form of a clear and concise statement.
Should read: "That's one of the punctuation deficiencies I was pointing out, moron." Requires a comma before moron, to separate the sentence from the person receiving it.
Should read: "I never said Kakshi didn't know, you idiot!" The triple negative needs to be taken out, and (again), separation between the sentence and the intended audience.
Should read: "I guess your slow brain didn't catch that because of the punctuation mistake." The contraction "you're" is not proper here; use "your" instead.
I guess we all make mistakes.
By the way:
He posted this to end the debate. I think it's a good idea to end it as well.
Last edited by KCMmmmm; Wed, 07-11-2007 at 05:58 PM.
Wow!! i come back to check on the forums after 1 freakin post and it blows up. I just read everything and laughed for like half an hour. I feel kinda bad for giving up this source of info. Anyways the only way that consequence for the MS would be good was if the reason itachi is always using sharingan is because they are like his glasses. b/c his normal eyesight is horrible.
Come on shino screen time!!!! I'm getting tired of seeing sasuke. i dont care what anyone thinks he betrayed everybody by leaving and still got nothing to show for it. There are a myriad of intelligent ninja in konoha for him to study under. WTF should he go to somewhere else to train. Nevermind dont wanna get flammed by other sasuke fans. I personally think he's gay and overrated. .........sharingan sucks....~runs away~
Right. Or if during the approaching fight between Sasuke and Itachi, Itachi used MS on Sasuke, weakening him too much to fight....and then....went blind right after using it, handing the final blow, and the win to Sasuke! Eh? How does that sound? Well...the next chapter should be out soon, so.....I want to see Deidara's last move.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
