[00:42] <&Y> also lol DS
01[00:42] <Arkangel> Yeah that
[00:42] <&DS> when itachi raped her tree thing
[00:42] <&Y> I think the opponent has to actually see itachi's eyes
[00:42] <&Y> not just him looking into their eyes
[00:42] <&DS> yeah I know
[00:42] <&DS> would be hilarious though
[00:42] <&Y> so
[00:42] <%Xelbair> that's why mirrors
[00:42] <%Xelbair> like code geass
01[00:42] <Arkangel> Sniper genhutsu
[00:42] <&Y> can Itachi genjutsu someone by taking a photograph of his mangekyou sharingan and showing it to people
[00:42] <&DS> prolly
01[00:43] <Arkangel> Itachi can do anything Y
01[00:43] <Arkangel> Even save Ed's mom
[00:43] <&Y> Arkangel yes and the only reason kurenai's genjutsu failed
[00:43] <&Y> is because the plot required it to
[00:43] <&DS> the 1st's gentjutsu was pretty goddamn instant as well
[00:43] <&Y> if anybody could just trap people in illusions there would be no point in all these ninja fireballs
01[00:43] <Arkangel> Fine, if you want to look at it like that everything works because it's supposed to work
[00:43] <&DS> when he made everything black
[00:43] <&Y> you would just mindcontrol somebody
[00:43] <&DS> against 3rd
01[00:43] <Arkangel> And our discussion for the past 10 minutes as been completely meaningless
[00:43] <&DS> it was like *poof* darkness
[00:44] <&Y> yeah and kabuto didn't do incantations or anything to genjutsu sasuke and itachi
[00:44] <&DS> I don't think there was any eye contact or whatever
[00:44] <&Y> it just happened, probably because he set it up beforehand
[00:44] <&DS> just blackness
[00:44] <&DS> out of nowhere
01[00:44] <Arkangel> That might not have been genjutsu DS
[00:44] <&DS> uit was
[00:44] <&DS> it*
01[00:44] <Arkangel> Might be shadow manipulation
[00:44] <&DS> nope it's a genjutsu
[00:44] <&Y> yeah it's a genjutsu, it just deactivates your sight
[00:45] <&Y> Arkangel what I'm saying is it's silly that all these techniques are getting invented
[00:45] <&Y> when they are all, fundamentally, the exact same thing
[00:45] <&Y> an illusion that actually fucking works
01[00:45] <Arkangel> That was my fucking point Y >_>
[00:45] <&DS> izanagi is retarded though
[00:45] <&Y> there's NOTHING special about tsukiyomi. any genjutsu should be able to alter the target's perception of time
01[00:45] <Arkangel> Every jutsu invented from this moment on will be bulshit
[00:45] <&DS> since it's not an illusion
[00:45] <&DS> it just fucking erases what you did
[00:45] <%Xelbair> did byakugan got some love?
[00:45] <&Y> i don't think that's true
01[00:46] <Arkangel> Because everyone is so fucking overpowered that they just become more and more ridiculous
[00:46] <&DS> byakugan has been the same since the star
[00:46] <&DS> t
[00:46] <&Y> just like izanami doesn't actually trap someone in a time paradox, izanagi isn't actually undoing reality, it just appears that way to the target
[00:47] <&Y> otherwise danzou could just go back in time like he had the car from back to the future
[00:47] <&DS> I don't think so
[00:47] <&DS> I think it activates as soon as you get hit
[00:47] <&DS> like a kawarimi
[00:47] <&Y> the replacement shit activated BEFORE you get hit obv
[00:47] <&Y> it just looks like you're getting hit
[00:47] <&Y> same for Izanagi
[00:48] <&Y> otherwise everyone in the series can time travel and undo wounds they recieved using replacement jutsu
[00:48] <&DS> I don't think it's time travel like that
[00:48] <&Y> also it just doesn't many any sense
[00:48] <&DS> it only works IF he gets hit
[00:48] <&DS> if he doesn't nothing gets erased
[00:48] <&Y> as soon as he's about to get hit
[00:49] <&Y> it genjutsu's the target into thinking they were successful
[00:49] <&Y> when in fact they were not
[00:49] <&DS> to the wiki!
[00:49] <&Y> lol I don't really care what the wiki says
01[00:49] <Arkangel> Wiki is written by people too DS
[00:49] <&Y> it's obvious it's a genjutsu, and not actually danzou literally having the power to travel through time
[00:49] <&DS> well the wiki lists the chapters where the shit gets explained
[00:49] <&DS> that's what I'm looking for
[00:50] <&Y> if danzou can literally time travel why doesn't he just reverse the entire day and wake up in his bed that morning not dead
[00:50] <&DS> again I don't think it's time travel in the sense that he can just go, oh I got hit, where in time will I go now?
[00:50] <&DS> I think it just resets before the fatal hit
[00:51] <&Y> so it's a very limited form of time travel, ok
[00:51] <&DS> I think so
[00:51] <&Y> that's totally absurd compared to it just being a clever genjutsu
[00:51] <&DS> if it was genjutsu
[00:51] <&DS> why respawn not anywhere near the enemy?
[00:51] <&DS> and just kill them when they are shooting the illusion?
[00:52] <&Y> because if genjutsu actually worked, none of the other techniques in the series would be worth a shit
[00:52] <&Y> you could just make your opponent fight trees the whole fucking time
[00:52] <&Y> even if it's TIME TRAVEL why not respawn somewhere far away
[00:53] <&Y> because most of the cast of this series are fucking retarded
[00:53] <&DS>
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-45540-2...apter-479.html
01[00:53] <Arkangel> Well whatever
01[00:53] <Arkangel> Kyuubi already eliminated genjutsu off the equation
[00:53] <&DS> tobi's explanation over a few pages
01[00:53] <Arkangel> By becoming naruto's willing bitch
01[00:53] <Arkangel> I will never believe anything Tobi says or will say DS
01[00:53] <Arkangel> EVER
[00:54] <&Y> lol well
[00:54] <&Y> two pages later he says it's a genjutsu
01[00:54] <Arkangel> Nothing Tobi says may ever be considered as fact
[00:54] <&Y> "the ultimate illusion"
[00:54] <&Y> so...
[00:54] <&DS> yes
[00:54] <&DS> as in it makes things real
[00:54] <&DS> as he says the page before it
[00:54] <&Y> you're right actually
[00:55] <&Y> danzou thinks about how he can't release Izanagi, implying if he does he will be dead again
[00:55] <&Y> that just doesn't make a lick of sense
01[00:55] <Arkangel> No
01[00:55] <Arkangel> Implying that if he does he could die at any minute
01[00:55] <Arkangel> He's afraid of Sasuke
[00:56] <&Y> yeah ark has it
[00:56] <&DS> if that arrow hit danzou and it was just an illusion, I don't understand why danzou doesn't just walk up to him and stab sasuke in the back while it happens
[00:56] <&Y> it's totally just a really funky genjutsu
01[00:56] <Arkangel> Specifically, his Susanoo
[00:56] <&DS> but no he respawns right next to his dead body
[00:56] <&Y> because he can only control his "personal" reality? whatever that means. it's just an excuse as to why he can't magically alter events so sasuke stabbed himself
01[00:56] <Arkangel> It's like this chapter says
[00:56] <&DS> THAT makes no sense
01[00:56] <Arkangel> It lets you redo shit DS
[00:56] <&DS> no just think about it
01[00:57] <Arkangel> In his other reality, danzou dodged it
[00:57] <&DS> danzou should NEVER get hit by anything
[00:57] <&DS> he should never stop moving
[00:57] <&DS> ever
[00:57] <&Y> well
[00:57] <&DS> if it was genjutsu
[00:57] <&Y> his Izanagi is eating his eyes
[00:57] <&Y> he can't just keep doing it forever
01[00:57] <Arkangel> It's a personal genjutsu
[00:57] <&Y> that's the downside
[00:57] <&DS> no think of it this way
01[00:57] <Arkangel> He using an ilusion on himself
[00:57] <&DS> his illusion gets hit right?
[00:57] <&DS> why would the real danzou stop moving?
[00:57] <&DS> and appear next to the dead body?
[00:57] <&DS> the real danzou SHOULD be meters ahead
[00:58] <&DS> since he never got hit
[00:58] <&Y> i'm sure has to concentrate and gather ninja magic to use it
01[00:58] <Arkangel> Dude, listen
01[00:58] <Arkangel> It's like this chapter explained
01[00:58] <Arkangel> It allows you to redo your past
01[00:58] <Arkangel> In the original "timeline", danzou got hit
01[00:58] <Arkangel> In the one he remade, he dodged
[00:58] <&DS> that's what I've been saying...
[00:58] <&DS> it's time travel
01[00:59] <Arkangel> It's... time manipulation
[00:59] <&DS> same difference?
[00:59] <&Y> it's definitely not time travel or time manipulation or anything
[00:59] <&Y> lol
01[00:59] <Arkangel> Well he's not actually traveing
01[00:59] <Arkangel> He's redoing it
[00:59] <&DS>
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-57473-1...apter-510.html
01[01:00] <Arkangel> Why the fuck am i trying so hard to explain something Kishi clearly pulled out of his ass?
[01:00] <&DS> a techniquye with the power to turn imagination into reality
[01:00] <&DS> the fatal injury gets erased and simply never happened
01[01:00] <Arkangel> You know, the sage is to blame for all of this
01[01:01] <Arkangel> Dickhead
[01:01] <&Y> idk
[01:01] <&Y> again this is Tobi explaining it
[01:01] <&DS>
http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/587/5
[01:02] <&DS> if yiou try to erase the results with izanagi
[01:02] <&DS> there
[01:02] <&DS> 3 times now
[01:02] <&Y> exactly
[01:02] <&Y> and in that cute little graph, izanami is also depicted as a time loop
[01:02] <&Y> when it's just a genjutsu...
[01:02] <&DS> izanami is just something else
[01:02] <&Y> that's just a way to explain the effects of the genjutsu
[01:02] <&DS> but 3 times now has it been said that izanagi alters reality
01[01:03] <Arkangel> All times explained by exceptional liars
01[01:03] <Arkangel> Have naruto explain it to me and i'll believe it
[01:03] <&Y> nah
01[01:03] <Arkangel> Get it?
01[01:03] <Arkangel> ta dum tchh
[01:03] <&Y> the explanation is fine, it's just that he also says izanami puts you in a time loop, so he is clearly just explaining how each one affects you, not that each one controls time
[01:04] <&DS> no it actually doesn't say time loop
[01:04] <&DS> it says thgat because izanagi erases results, it will use those results against you in a genjutsu
[01:04] <&DS> and will just loop izanagi over and over again
[01:04] <&DS> cause you can't get a good result
[01:04] <&Y> also uh
[01:04] <&DS> that's why non izanagi users cqan get out
[01:04] <&DS> if they just...stop fighting I guess
[01:04] <&Y> on an unrelated subject
[01:04] <&Y>
http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/587/9
[01:05] <&Y> this is a mistranslation right? itachi was going to use the whatever on sasuke but didn't
[01:05] <&DS> yes that's wrong
01[01:05] <Arkangel> Wait for mangastream
[01:05] <&DS> I read the other translation
[01:05] <&DS> it said he was going to use it on him
[01:05] <&DS> I think
01[01:05] <Arkangel> Oh btw
01[01:06] <Arkangel> Snake sage mode? Out of nowhere?
[01:06] <&Y> also great little bit
01[01:06] <Arkangel> Really?
[01:06] <&Y> Kabuto explodes out of his body
[01:06] <&DS> why not
[01:06] <&Y> and takes the time to grab his GLASSES off it
[01:06] <&Y> this despite the fact that HE HAS NO EYES ATM
01[01:06] <Arkangel> Because it's supposed to be something hard to achieve DS
01[01:06] <Arkangel> Naruto had hacks and even then it took him quite a bit
[01:07] <&Y> that was totally worth it
[01:07] <&DS> he obviously needs them for extra power Y
[01:07] <&Y> for that page of the snake sage smoking a pipe
01[01:07] <Arkangel> Megane power
01[01:07] <Arkangel> powah*
[01:07] <&DS> the snake sage is pimp
[01:08] <&Y> also
[01:08] <&Y> I like how kabuto's friend from the orphanage
[01:08] <&Y> apparently STILL DOESN'T REALIZE that kabuto is evil, despite having blatantly attacked konoha a bunch, and that he is still out on a mission
[01:08] <&Y> this guy doesn't subscribe to the konoha newspaper obv
01[01:08] <Arkangel> How did that brother now know he was in the chunin exam anyway?
01[01:08] <Arkangel> Didn't he do those a dozen times?
[01:09] <&Y> yeah that makes no sense, I already mentioned that a few chapters back
[01:09] <&DS> ppl from konoha just have terrible memories
[01:09] <&Y> Kabuto registered under his own name in the chuunin exam for years
[01:09] <&DS> like how they didn't recognise him in the chuunin exam
[01:09] <&Y> despite being an assassination target for Root
[01:09] <&Y> ofc this is because at the time he didn't have this retarded backstory
[01:09] <&DS> oh this 50 year old genin named kabuto wants to enter?
[01:09] <&DS> fine
[01:09] <&Y> lol
01[01:09] <Arkangel> Then at the very least have the decency to adapt the backstory to fit the actual character
01[01:10] <Arkangel> Fucking Kishi
[01:10] <&Y> he isn't that old right lol
[01:10] <&DS> nah lol
01[01:10] <Arkangel> Titles don't mean anything anymore
[01:10] <&Y> also itachi is obviously going to fail to stop edo tensei completely
01[01:10] <Arkangel> naruto the genin keeps getting thrown into SSSSSS missions
[01:10] <&Y> i'm going to scream if madara just randomly vanishes and that's the resolution to the fight
[01:11] <&DS> I actually
[01:11] <&DS> hope
01[01:11] <Arkangel> Can you record the scream?
[01:11] <&DS> madara just murders all the kage
[01:11] <&Y> yes
[01:11] <&DS> just gets rid of them
[01:11] <&Y> lol
01[01:11] <Arkangel> I'd like to use it when it's bed time
01[01:11] <Arkangel> And your soothing agony may rock me to sleep
[01:12] <&Y> also
[01:12] <&Y> since the zombies have infinite chakra
01[01:12] <Arkangel> Y'all should read One Piece
[01:12] <&Y> why didn't kabuto just resurrect only Madara, then have him split into 500,000 kage bunshins
01[01:12] <Arkangel> Shit's so cash
[01:12] <&Y> and easily kill everyone
[01:12] <&DS> because then there wouldn't be any hype
[01:12] <&DS> and kabuto wins
01[01:13] <Arkangel> Because zombies can't bunshin?
01[01:13] <Arkangel> Have we ever seen one do it?
[01:13] <&DS> lol
[01:13] <&DS> madara made like 25 bunshin
[01:13] <&DS> rofl
[01:13] <&Y> yeah
[01:13] <&DS> that's where the fight is now
[01:13] <&DS> him making those bunshin
[01:13] <&Y> madara has already done exactly that
[01:14] <&Y> why not just make 25 madaras to begin with
[01:14] <&Y> pretty confident 25 of him could beat the allied army
01[01:14] <Arkangel> Oh shit he did
[01:14] <&Y> since they are all invincible
01[01:14] <Arkangel> This manga's retarded
01[01:14] <Arkangel> Does Kabuto even have to supply any sort of manga to the zombies?
01[01:15] <Arkangel> He said they'd still work if he's dead... maybe he's lying?
[01:15] <&DS> chakra?
[01:15] <&DS> no
[01:15] <&DS> they are self sufficient perpetual energy reactors
[01:16] <&Y> lol
01[01:16] <Arkangel> THIS IS SO RETARDED
[01:16] <&Y> konoha could generate a perpetual motion machine by rezzing any random ninja and having them cast fireball 24 hours a day
[01:16] <&DS> rofl yeah
01[01:16] <Arkangel> Or have a never ending source of fresh water
[01:16] <&Y> lol
01[01:17] <Arkangel> Infinite electricity power plant
[01:17] <&Y> edo tensei could solve all the problems of the world
01[01:17] <Arkangel> From just one dude
[01:17] <&Y> infinite medical jutsus
[01:17] <&Y> like Tsunades
01[01:17] <Arkangel> Infinite tsunades
01[01:17] <Arkangel> All over the world
[01:17] <&Y> hospitals could be staffed by doctors who never go to sleep
[01:17] <&DS> instead it's being used for war
01[01:17] <Arkangel> They'd be like nurse joy
[01:17] <&DS> ofcourse
[01:17] <&Y> and can cure all wounds short of instantaneous death
01[01:17] <Arkangel> Free health care everywhere
[01:17] <&Y> in fact rofl
[01:17] <&Y> you can obviously cure death itself... WITH THE FUCKING EDO TENSEI!
[01:18] <&DS> lol
01[01:18] <Arkangel> Rez the fourth, lightining fast carriers
[01:18] <&DS> in the end everyone is a zombie
[01:18] <&DS> rofl
[01:18] <&DS> like the entire world
[01:18] <&DS> just zombies
01[01:18] <Arkangel> No more UPS bulshit from ani
[01:18] <&Y> it doesn't even matter if you're a zombie
[01:18] <&Y> because the edo tensei caster can just give you free will
01[01:18] <Arkangel> The 4th would deliver his shit instantly
[01:18] <&Y> and, apparently, you are actually the same person when resurrected
[01:18] <&Y> so it's no different from being alive
[01:18] <&DS> lol
[01:19] <&Y> all it requires is dead bodies as fuel, which I'm sure you could find plenty of ninjas willing to donate their body to literally solving all the world's ills
01[01:19] <Arkangel> You also need to kill a second dude
01[01:19] <Arkangel> Maybe you could use terminally ill ninjas
[01:19] <&Y> i thought you just needed to kill someone and use material
[01:19] <&Y> just use already dead people
[01:19] <&DS> you only need 1 person
[01:19] <&Y> or yes
[01:19] <&DS> but that person needs to be alive
[01:20] <&DS> in the ritual
[01:20] <&Y> I'm quite sure people would be willing to sacrifice their lives
[01:20] <&Y> or better yet
[01:20] <&Y> just have them sacrifice themselves
[01:20] <&Y> and then resurrect THAT PERSON
[01:20] <&DS> lolll
[01:20] <&Y> so no one actually dies
[01:20] <&Y> even if it was something sinister
[01:20] <&DS> resurrectionception
[01:20] <&Y> like they have to die against their will
[01:20] <&Y> you could use edo tensei as capital punishment
[01:21] <&Y> and accomplish everything
[01:21] <&DS> edo tensei is naruto's replicator tech
01[01:21] <Arkangel> Replicators need matter
01[01:21] <Arkangel> These zombies can fucking create it themselves
[01:22] <&Y> so does edo tensei, but that's hardly a limiting factor
01[01:22] <Arkangel> They're basically demigods
[01:22] <&Y> you have to start with something
[01:22] <&Y> but you get more out of it than you put in
[01:22] <&DS> so actually
[01:22] <&DS> oro saved the world
[01:22] <&DS> he's ghandi
[01:22] <&Y> at least star trek's world acknowledged replicator technology created a post-scarcity society
01[01:22] <Arkangel> Poor Oro
[01:22] <&Y> and there's still bullshit like you can't fabricate certain things in a replicator
[01:22] <&DS> snake bastard was just misunderstood
01[01:23] <Arkangel> Stargate's replicators are better Y
01[01:23] <Arkangel> They can create anything out of everything
[01:23] <&Y> DS he was really just a monstrous idiot
[01:23] <&Y> since he could have won ANY war with edo tensei
[01:23] <&DS> yeah
[01:23] <&Y> even if you can only resurrect 1 person, you just teach them kage bunshin and they make infinite bunshins
01[01:24] <Arkangel> Not really, he wasn't nearly as good with it as Kabuto is
[01:24] <&Y> see my previous statement
01[01:24] <Arkangel> For all you know they weren't generators back then
01[01:24] <Arkangel> And needed Oro's chakra
01[01:24] <Arkangel> Kabuto did say he improved it
[01:25] <&DS> which is a clear deus ex machina
[01:25] <&DS> just like suigetsu finding oro's fucking laptop
[01:25] <&Y> lmao
[01:26] <&Y> that over anything
01[01:26] <Arkangel> I bet it's a mac
[01:26] <&Y> was the most laughable moment in the manga
01[01:26] <Arkangel> Fucking hipster oro
[01:26] <&DS> hah
[01:26] <&Y> it clearly doesn't need the user's chakra
[01:26] <&Y> because orochimaru obviously doesn't have as much chakra as the 1st, 2nd, and 4th combined, yet he felt confident in resurrecting them and the jutsu has no time limite
[01:26] <&DS> it doesn't need anything rofl
[01:26] <&DS> it's just powered by pure will
[01:26] <&Y> if oro wasn't a bad guy
[01:26] <&Y> he would have saved the world
[01:27] <&Y> bahahaha
[01:27] <&DS> lol
[01:27] <&Y> all agriculture work could be done by edo tensei bunshins
[01:27] <&Y> in case you felt awkward about basically enslaving people
[01:27] <&Y> since bunshins aren't even real people
[01:28] <&Y> i wanna post a thread called Saving the World with Edo Tensei that discusses how it's actually the greatest thing
[01:28] <&DS> lol
[01:28] <&DS> this entire convo should be posted on the forum
[01:29] <&Y> kishi should just throw random super tech
[01:29] <&Y> into naruto
[01:29] <&Y> every 100 chapters
[01:29] <&Y> like gaara coordinates the alliance army with his ipad
01[01:29] <Arkangel> i shall!
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