Did making the Naruto chars older hurt the series?

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

No, not it did not

[Yukimura]

Feeling out your opponent is not as useful when your attacks are massive but one dimensional. If the enemy can block your giant death ball you're pretty much dead anyway so it's better to just try it. If they block it, you can't win and you run. If they just avoid it, then you know that all you have to do is find a way to catch them off guard and hit them with it. The longer you keep trying little stuff the longer you leave yourself open for whatever they might potentially do to you.

[DarthEnderX]

If they just avoid it, then you know that all you have to do is find a way to catch them off guard and hit them with it.

Wouldn't using the attack directly just make it that much harder to catch them off guard with it?

If you knew you only had one straightforward, powerful attack, wouldn't it make more sense to try and catch them off guard to begin with, BEFORE they've seen your attack?

It's like in Sasuke vs. Gaara. Sasuke has Chidori, but he knew he'd never land the thing, so he waits until he's sure his opponent won't dodge it before he attacks.

If he'd just started the battle using Chidori, Gaara would have simply avoided it, and it would have been wasted.

[Animeniax]

If he'd just started the battle using Chidori, Gaara would have simply avoided it, and it would have been wasted.

That only applies with a technique like Chidori when used by an (relatively) unskilled fighter like Sasuke. Rasengan in the hands of someone like Naruto with his huge reserve of chakra could be used repeatedly to start, continue, and finish a fight.

[Abdula]

Not necessarily but I see your point, I just wouldn't approach a battle that way.

[redcat]

they should have another time skip so i wont feel so bad about beating off to hentai based on the girls from the series.

[Abdula]

But that is just his normal Rasengan, I don't think anyone considers that to be an ultimate attack. Most ninja whether they have a large reserve of chakra or not their most powerful attacks usually consumes most of it, so if you miss not only has your opponent already seen your trump card but you have a severely depleted amount of chakra to continue fighting with.

[Animeniax]

Rasengan was watered down during fillers, but it is an ultimate attack. Only 3 people know how to use it, including Jiraiya, the 4th hokage, and Naruto.

I haven't been watching Naruto lately, but the super Rasengan definitely could be considered an ultimate attack. I imagine from your statement that there is some limitation to how many times Naruto can use it, even with the 9-tail's huge amount of chakra at his disposal?

[Kraco]

When he was learning the technique, he must have formed it dozens of times a day. So, it's somewhat safe to say the limit of how many he can make per day is more than he could possibly ever need to use in a single day.

[Abdula]

This is getting a bit spoilerish here... You're plenty vague about some of it, but don't reference events in the manga at all, if you can help it. Besides, your argument is moot being based on unrevealed manga facts, since the people you're debating with straight up don't have that info yet.

Verbal warning, just try not to tie in manga points in your arguments.


HOLY HELL. I was completely ignorant of this, guess that explains that. I should really pay more attention.

[Kraco]

For once I'd be happy if Naruto remained stubborn and didn't listen to those words. He should instead use the Kyuubi chakra as much as possible and perfect red rasengans.

Anyway, three per day sounds like a totally artificial limitation put in place simply because Sasuke (or Kakashi) can't use chidori too many times and thus it would be "unfair" if Naruto could use rasengan as much as he needed. What comes to the practice rasengans and their numbers, it doesn't really make sense. He was surely wasting a lot of energy with them, instead of them not, supposedly, being full power. It's not a raw force technique like chidori so the better he can do it, the less energy it should take for the same effect. It makes zero sense the poorly formed ones spent less energy and still shattered places.

[Abdula]

Okay yes, he can throw rasengans around at will no one is disputing that. Jiraiya can do it to, but the normal rasengan isn't much of a jutsu, not only is it easy to avoid but it doesn't do much damage so it won't mean anything against Akatsuki. The only person I even remember Naruto hitting with the normal rasengan and this is non-filler ofcourse is Kabuto and he took the hit on purpose so shut the hell up already. There is a reason Jiraiya doesn't use it in battle because its useless.

[Yukimura]

Why would Kabuto have taken that hit on purpose? Not to mention the fact that Naruto had grabbed his hand to keep him from escaping since that is a fairly weak point. Also Natuto hit the Itachi clone with a Rasengan albeit a larger than average normal one and it ended that clones life rather abruptly.

Anyway, you're certainly right about the Rasengan being relatively easy to avoid, however I can't see how you think it doesn't do much damage. If the demonstration of the Rasengan on the tree, Tsunade making Naruto drop an incomplete one into the ground outside the teahouse, and the destruction of the water tower on top of Konoha hospital are accurate depictions of the Rasengan's destructive power then a human body shouldn't survive being hit with one. Last I checked trees, rock, and metal were all harder than human flesh. Kabuto's excuse for surviving was his Deus Ex Machina cell regrowth ability which we must assume can regrow cells at nearly the rate that they'd be destroyed by the Rasengan tearing through a body.

[Abdula]

What Naruto used was the Odama Rasengan different technique. Kabuto took the hit because he knew he could regenerate and so he could have the opportunity to sever the flow of chakra around Naruto's heart or something like that to kill him, something he said was irreparable so Tsunade nor the Kyuubi could heal him but all she had to do was shed a tear and wow he was magically healed.

Last I checked trees, rock, and metal were all harder than human flesh.

You should check again because I can give you numerous examples of people sent flying through rocks and trees and even walls without much consequence. The rules of what can and can't be done in Naruto were never fully established and even those that were are subject to change at will.

[Assertn]

You should check again because I can give you numerous examples of people sent flying through rocks and trees and even walls without much consequence. The rules of what can and can't be done in Naruto were never fully established and even those that were are subject to change at will.

Can you list them? I can't actually think of a time when any characters were physically sent through rocks and trees without much consequence.

Well, the only exceptions (if you can even call them that) that I can think of, are chouji's pill-powered meat tank through the rock wall and Kimimaro's bone spear through Gaara's hardened sand.

[Abdula]

Sure I could list them but the fact that I didn't means I have no intention to. There are a few I can remember but actually looking for references in the manga and or anime is not something I intend to do right now, maybe later.

[Yukimura]

You are right Abdula, I forgot that Naruto characters bodies are, empirically speaking, harder than stone. Because of the magically high resistance to physical damage possessed by seemingly all ninja the assertion that the Rasengan doesn't do much damage does have merit, but then again, Kabuto, even with both ninja toughness and his super healing, was incapacitated by the Rasengan (for all of the maybe 10 minutes that the Sannin fought).

Some Examples (My Job sure is boring some days):

Sandaime vs Shodaime & Nidaime:
Sandaime uses Katon: Karyuu Endan against both and they are completely engulfed in the flames, within the inferno they showed token signs that the flame bothered them and then Nidaime calmly cast a jutsu to counter the flames.

Shodaime runs at Sandainme, who shoots fire bullets at him. Said bullets are blocked by Shodaime's bare hands (or his magic aura/ AT field).

Naruto vs Kabuto:
Kabuto's body deeply deforms the rock behind him when he hits it after taking the fist Rasengan.

Sannin Battle:
Orochimaru: hit by multiple Super Strength Tsunade punches that can shatter stone walls, not particularly happy about it but not incapacitated by them either.

Chouji punches Jiroubu/Jidanbou/Fat Sound Four guy with all his strength, Jidanbou's body displaces the ground around him.

Naruto vs Sasuke:
Naruto Takes Either a Katon Gokakyuu no Jutsu or a Katon: Ryuuka no Jutsu right to the face and is fine afterwards.

Naruto+Kyuubi enhanced speed/strength vs Sasuke No Curse Seal:
Naruto throws Sasuke through into a wall hard enough to displace the stone in the wall

Naruto Creates a clone whip and slams Sasuke into a cliff, Sasuke's body displaces the cliff side.

Naruto then takes a point blank Katon: Ryuuka no Jutsu and is only momentarily stunned but suffers no apparent fire damage to his person or even his clothes.

Naruto is then thrown off a cliff at least 10 stories high and lands on his head with Sasuke's weight added to his own, the rock under his head is damaged but his head and neck maintain their positions perfectly.

Naruto in 1 tailed Kyuubi Mode vs Sasuke Curse Seal Level 1: Naruto punches Sasuke into a wall destroying a large section of the wall behind him.

[Abdula]

One of my favorites was during the Sasuke vs Naruto battle at the valley of end when Sasuke used that wire he always does to tie Naruto to a rock and the wire cut straight through the rock itself but Naruto's skin and clothes were completely immune to any damage.

Thats why I said the rules of Naruto are subject to change at will because Kishimoto changes the rules of his world whenever he deems it convenient.

[Kraco]

However, saying the rules are subject to change depending on how many squirrels Kishimoto counted in the park during his evening stroll also means rasengan could be extremely efficient as well if needed!

So, in the end it's plus minus zero. But somehow I tend to think we are more likely to see people avoiding the effect than just absorbing it.

[Assertn]

Well ok, but in all honesty....

Sandaime's flame was blocked by Nidaime's water shield. Didn't engulf them.
Anything dealing with the 1st and 2nd Hokages should not count anyway, because it was quite clearly revealed that in the zombie form they were physically immortal.

Pretty much every scene mentioned in reference to Naruto vs Sasuke was fabricated by the Anime studio, and therefore was in no way part of Kishimoto's vision.

Chouji's punch on Jiroubou kills Jiroubou.

I'll give you the Kabuto and Oro scenes, however I think they've justified those characters well enough to make it at least plausible.