What I really don't like about the series as a whole is that they keep introducing new characters instead of developing existing characters. I guess all long running shounen anime are that way, but it's such a waste.
What I really don't like about the series as a whole is that they keep introducing new characters instead of developing existing characters. I guess all long running shounen anime are that way, but it's such a waste.
“For God will not permit that we shall know what is to come... those who by some sorcery or by some dream might come to pierce the veil that lies so darkly over all that is before them may serve by just that vision to cause that God should wrench the world from its heading and set it upon another course altogether and then where stands the sorcerer? Where the dreamer and his dream?”
I don't personally think the characters being older is hurting the anime. Personally i think it has given the show a more mature vibe, which i like. The problem as i see it is this: At the beginning of the original "Naruto" he was pretty much just useless and annoying, but we got to watch him grow as a ninja and by the end he had become a fitting rival for Sasuke. Now Shippuuden has started, and it's like we're going to have to watch him go from loud suckbag to kick ass all over again. It's just kind of rediculous and it puts me off quite a bit. Sakura spends 3 years training with Sunade and comes out vastly improved and a much cooler character, but Naruto spends all that time with Jiraiya and thus far it seems he has almost nothing to show for it. Well except for a bigger version of his Rasengan. Whats killing Shippuuden for me is that it seems like Naruto is almost starting over in terms of skill, instead of showing any improvement from pre-timeskip. Hopefully this new arc will change that.
Bravo. I couldn't have said it better.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Ok so someone neg reped me and wrote a list of "skills" most of which i don't recognize the names of. Of the things he listed, i think the Shuriken and the Rasengan are the only ones we've seen thus far. He brought up the "Fox Cloak" as well, but i don't consider what amounts to a berserker state where he's completely out of control of himself, to the point of attacking his friends, to be an actual skill.
In any case i suppose i should clarify my meaning. When i refer to "Skill" i don't mean simply acquiring techniques. Example: Pre-time skip Sakura didn't just lack techniques. She was scared, unconfident, over reliant on others, and just plain had no fighting spirit/sense. All those things made her a huge liability. As we've seen post time skip after 2.5 years of training with Sunade she has overcome those intangible flaws.
Pre-Time skip Naruto was reckless, over emotional, and like Sakura lacked a lot of basic fighting sense. These things were often liabilities as well. Post-Time skip it appears he's overcome none of that. Yeah they showed what i thought would be some promising things in the Kakashi battle at the beginning of the series, but when it really mattered all his flaws were still there. As soon as he saw Gaara he completely lost his head (over emotional) and charged after Deidara on his own (reckless). Then he lost his cool beating on Deidara and went into berserker "Fox Cloak" mode and tried to kill Kakashi (over emotional and reckless). I'm not saying i wanted Naruto to be the cold calculating fighter Sasuke is, but i did hope that 2.5 years training with one of the Legendary Sanin might have afforded him some of the same self-control and intangible fighting assets Sakura managed to aquire.
Ignore the closed-minded, idiotic naruto fanboys. Naruto at this point hasn't grown much, his battle strategy, use of jutsu and his ability to assess his opponent’s strengths and weaknesses are still the same. So while he may have more charka/stamina now and he has a more powerful rasengan nothing else has changed. I suppose his lack of growth is most likely due to Jiraiya's training method with him. Naruto is not a good student and Jiraiya doesn't seem to have much patience with him so if his training with Jiraiya for the last 2.5 years was anything like when Jiraiya taught him the rasengan there would have been very little actual hands on training.
If Naruto had grown that much his character would have changed a lot which is not something I think Kishi wants to do at this point. Besides if Naruto had suddenly become so strong the battles he has been in would've certainly had different outcomes and the show itself would’ve had a different feel. Naruto is supposed to be the inexperienced, overemotional underdog who blindly rushes into things. That is what most shonen protagonists are.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Oh would you people stop with this ridiculous discourse.
The shadow clone technique:
1. Is not forbidden
2. Any jounin level ninja can use it
3. Most people don’t use it because it wastes charka
4. Naruto himself doesn’t utilize the shadow clones properly just like with everything else he does.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
^^ yeah no kidding... He's like 15 or 16 right now. That's still pretty much a kid.
Like I've said, the older chars aren't hurting the show. It's the animation and the lame pathetic dialogue "let's get stronger!" that ruin the show.
He seemed to be doing a pretty good job with his jutsus since the start of shippuuden.Originally Posted by Abdula
You are just too ridiculously biased against Naruto.
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
I'm not biased, I'm fair. I agree with you that he has been using the shadow clones better since shippuden started the thing is before then the shadow clones were for the most part just a weapon of mass distraction albeit a good one.
Besides I doubt a justu like shadow clones would simply just be used to distract and enemy or provide the extra hands he needs to use the rasengan. Kisame and Zabuza utilized their water clones well and we all saw what the third did with his, although that is an unfair comparison but he was the one that was always going on about wanting to be hokage.
I suppose Naruto's misuse of the shadow clones may be a result of his lack of supplemental jutsu but that is a horrible excuse and really would only make him a failure of a ninja. Jiraiya did tell him to not conserve chakra so properly utilizing the clone is probably far from his mind but against Akatsuki level opponents on has to be more cautious. He can't just rely on rasengans and a large number of shadow clones to win all his battles. I would think that properly utilizing a few clones would be better than trying to defeat them with just sheer numbers especially because ninjas are supposed to be elite and by now everyone knows about his rasengan.
Still if all he needed to unseal the Kyuubi was a scroll that a genin, wait he didn't even graduate the academy when that happened so if all he needed to release the Kyuubi was a scroll that an academy level ninja was able to steal, read and decipher then what the hell did the fourth waste his life for.
Wait so not only is Naruto still a genin but he didn't even graduate the academy Iruka just gave him a pass.
Oh and the shadow clone technique isn't forbidden, forbidden means that the ninja that uses the jutsu would be putting his life at risk or that the jutsu requires the sacrifice of a life and there would be some kind of punishment if one was a known user of the technique. The curse seal, Oro's reincarnation jutsu, Chiyo's jutsu and Sasori's human puppet jutsu are perfect examples.
Last edited by Abdula; Sat, 12-01-2007 at 07:57 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
The Kage Bunshin is forbidden, but the real danger comes with the Taju Kage Bunshin, which is the mass replication one. Also, I don't think the other characters are actually doing Kage Bunshin. And if they are, you also have to ask youself, when did the technique become forbidden? So that some of the older characters know it, doesn't make it any less of a forbidden technique.
That aside, having older characters doesn't hurt the series. "It's annoying how he acts like a dumb kid", the thing is that he's still a kid. He isn't "grown-up" as some have made him out to be.
Last edited by Munsu; Fri, 11-30-2007 at 03:51 PM.
I don't know if the technique is forbidden because it was said that if Naruto was to read that scroll that he would somehow be able to release the Kyuubi blah, blah, blah and we know that wasn't true.
Also the first few episode/chapters in the series were absolute crap, I don't think Kishi knew back then exactly what direction he wanted the whole Naruto/Kyuubi angle to go in. If the scroll and what was in it is such a big deal I would think that the third would have made more of a fuss about it so I just chalk all that up to the series just starting off.
The shadow clone technique can't be forbidden because, forbidden techniques have a tremendous risk to the user and although using it would quickly use up the majority of your chakra unlike chidori it doesn't seem to have much risk to your life force. All one needs to know to be able to use the shadow clone tecnhnique is one seal, I think a forbidden technique would be more difficult to perform than that and secondly it was said that the technique is taught to all jounins so if the technique is forbidden they wouldn't still be teaching it.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
The problem is that Naruto didn't read the scroll, he merely read the first jutsu he saw in there.
Lol I can't believe you don't think you're biased. But it's an unprovable theory so we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Anyway, I think you're right about it not being forbidden. Back in episode 1 when Naruto reads the name of the first jutsu in the Scroll of Sealing he says Taju Kage Buunshin no Jutsu, not Kage Buunshin no Jutsu. It's a safe bet that if the scroll described how to perform Taju Kage Buunshin it probably went into some detail about how Kage Buunshin worked as well, which is how Naruto learned both. When Iruka saw the technique he recognized it and called it Kage Buunshin no Jutsu and referred to it as a "high level technique" indicating that he recognized and was familiar with it. I would be very surprised if a Forbbiden technique would be common knowledge for a chuunin middle school teacher.
And I don't think being dangerous is a concrete prerequisite for a jutsu to be forbidden, it's more of a commonly occurring theme in jutsu's that have been forbidden. If a Kage feels a jutsu shouldn't be used, then it is forbidden, and a good reason to not want a jutsu to be used would be that it is too dangerous to the user or it is too costly and not worth it (Edo Tensei).
As to the scroll breaking the seal, I don't think it was having the scroll that was going to allow Naruto o break the seal it was his mental state. The Hokage was afraid of what would happen if the Kyuubi was released through Naruto's anger and had possession of the scroll to boot. We've seen that the Kyuubi is an intelligent being and if a giant frog and demon raccoon can use jutsu why not a 9-tailed demon fox?
As to Naruto's use of clones, he has his own way of doing things and it's worked for him so far. Naruto isn't a strategic thinker, it's just not in his nature, yet he's proven himself effective in taking out opponents in the past with clever, but childish tactics and sheer determination. If you think about it neither Lee nor Kiba are particularly strategic either, but they both do well when the chips are down. Naruto has a better battle record than both of them, defeating jounin level opponents left and right while we've only see Lee win a battle against himself and Kiba has never won a battle at all.
I don't think there was any chance of Naruto breaking the seal. At that point the seal was still very strong and he wasn't yet able to even access the Kyuubi's chakra so again I
chalk that up to the series just beginning. Anyway this seal thing isn't very clear from what I saw when the third used it I don't know how it could've been used to seal the Kyuubi in Naruto although it was originally the fourth's technique so I think only he would know.
At one point it was said that the seal was in the process of breaking, then it was said that it wasn't because the seal was designed so that Naruto could gain access to the Kyuubi's chakra, then it was said that the seal was incorporating the kyuubi's chakra with Naruto's.
It was also said that Naruto could release the Kyuubi at anytime by just willing the seal to break which I don't think is true because we have seen him get desperate many times and literally beg the kyuubi for chakra yet the seal didn't break and designing the seal so that it would break just because the host got angry and wanted some extra chakra is foolish.
Now I know some idiot is going to say that the seal is breaking because how else would Naruto have been able to go one tail but it isn't. As we've seen from the very beginning Naruto has been able to access more and more of the kyuubi's chakra over time but that is simply due to his chakra capacity increasing as he grows older and uses the Kyuubi's chakra more not because the seal is breaking but because it is designed to allow Naruto to use the Kyuubi chakra.
What jounin level opponents has Naruo defeated?
The thing with Kiba and Lee is that they are far more skilled than Naruto is and they have more jutsu at their disposal. The only person Lee fought was Gaara and we all know he really stood no chance, and Kiba only fought the sound ninjas and none of the leaf ninjas involved in that mission really 'won' anything. The only two people anyone could make a case for is Choji and Neji and they by all rights should have been dead.
Yeah I don’t think I’m biased. Biased would mean that I’m prejudiced and predisposed to act in a particular way or have a certain opinion and I’m not. My opinions and conclusions are all the result of what I’ve seen and are supported by evidence therefore I’m not bias. “Naruto is a classic close combat idiot,” who is overemotional and only knows a total of three jutsu, whose only strategy is to charge at his opponents and he didn’t even graduate the academy. That is all fact.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
All fact but you know, that last point. He did graduate the academy, graduating the academy means you are a real ninja, and thus the headband. You mean that he didn't pass the final exam the FIRST time. He displayed he was able to do more than the exam asked for and so the teacher passed him.
If in college I fail a class the teacher still has the power to change that grade (it will almost never happen, don't get on my case about this) if the grade is changed then in fact I passed the class.
Now back to your "facts" gogo!
Lol, why would you post something and then ask for people not to get on your case about it.
Fact is Naruto failed the exam therefore he failed to graduate. The exam required Naruto to perform the bunshin technique because he can perform the more difficult kage bunshin doesn't mean that he is able to perform bunshin. If the teacher changed your grade it doesn't change the fact that you failed. The truth is the truth it is not subjective.
I forgot to mention that Naruto failed the academy three times not just the FIRST time. He should be much older than he is then again there a lot of instances in Naruto where time didn't make any sense.
Like how Orochimaru was supposedly in Akatsuki when Itachi was there because he was supposed to have left Akatsuki tens years ago and at that point Itachi would've only been 10 so not only would he not have been in Akatsuki yet but he wouldn't have even killed the clan yet. I always wanted to know how the hell did Akatsuki ever have ten members the numbers just don't add up.
Last edited by Abdula; Tue, 12-04-2007 at 01:52 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
No it doesn't change the fact that he failed, but it does change the fact that he didn't graduate. He graduated the academy, that is all there is to it.
And I posted that because saying "no way it doesn't happen" just means you are ignorant, it is like someone watching an event then people saying it didn't happen to that person, the argument is useless.
He is a ninja, to be a ninja you must have graduated, Iruka passed Naruto and therefor he graduated, just not on that go.
EDIT: Reading the next post down also!~
I didn't say he only failed once (just that I thought you meant the first time, which I guess instead would be the third time)I only mentioned the amount of times Naruto had failed because Jessper said that Naruto had only failed once. I was merely disputing whether or not Naruto failed the final exam or graduated because even though he did earn his headband and become a genin he did fail. Fact is fact.Also, failing the final exam and graduating are clearly not mutually exclusive events, if Naruto failed the exam 4 times he can still graduate (obviously since he has his headband).
Really I do wish Naruto was less useless but in the mean time I can watch for stuff like the Sasori fight, or the Sannin fight. It is probably silly to watch the show for the side characters but /meh
Last edited by Jessper; Wed, 12-05-2007 at 01:51 AM.
Jounin level opponents: Pre Skip, Shukakku and Kabuto(though at the cost of his life in Kabuto's case). Post Skip, clone Itachi and Diedara = Forced to retreat.
Failing the exam is objective, but the exam itself is subjective. It comes down to what you think is more important, practicality or 'the book'. If you only consider the practical use of the Clone jutsu, creating a diversion, the Shadow Clone jutsu is superior because shadow clones are real bodies that can affect and be affected by the world while regular clones can't (a perceptive person will notice that the wind doesn't move the hair of a clone, or that they don't leave foot prints). But if you want to go exactly by 'the book' then sure, he didn't deserve to graduate the academy because he didn't know a specific skill. The book doesn't care that he would never have a real world use for that skill because he knows another skill that perfectly replaces it.
As to his past failures all they prove is that in the past, he wasn't ready to graduate when he took the test in the past. All it takes is one time convincing the teachers that he deserves to pass and he does, that's how tests tend to work. Once he was recognized by Iruka as having sufficient skill to rate being a ninja he passed, I don't see what the number of times he tried and failed has to do with it. The whole point of testing is to make sure he was proficient enough to be a ninja, eventually, though it took 3-4 tries he knew enough to be proficient and thus he got his headband.
Last edited by Yukimura; Tue, 12-04-2007 at 05:06 PM.
I only mentioned the amount of times Naruto had failed because Jessper said that Naruto had only failed once. I was merely disputing whether or not Naruto failed the final exam or graduated because even though he did earn his headband and become a genin he did fail. Fact is fact.
This is far more interesting. I consider none of those to be "defeats."
Naruto didn't defeat Shukakku I didn't even consider it to be an opponent. Naruto defeated Gaara, he summons Gamabunta who then fought with Shukaku. Gamabunta knew that there was no way he could defeat Shukaku so he came up with a plan for them to awaken Gaara. I would hardly consider punching Gaara in the face to wake him up defeating Shukaku.
Naruto didn't defeat Kabuto that one is pretty much self-explanatory. Like I said before in my opinion Kabuto won that battle, simply because he got rasenganed doesn't mean he lost. Without Tsunade Naruto would've been dead and Kabuto had completely healed himself in a matter of minutes. Tsunade got slashed to pieces but I never heard anybody saying anything about her losing because she healed herself and then got back into the battle, Kabuto did the same thing albeit a bit slower while Naruto was lying there half dead. So plain and simple Kabuto won.
Itachi's clone I guess I could give you that one if not for the fact that is was just a clone whose intention was not to defeat them but to delay them. Naruto may have blasted him with the Rasengan but that battle was between Kakashi and Itachi and once again if it wasn't for Chiyo and Sakura Kishi alone knows what Itachi would've done to him in that genjutsu. Anyway my main point is that I don't consider Kakashi's clone holding Itachi's clone so that Naruto could Rasengan both of them to equate to Naruto defeating Itachi and apparently neither do you.
I don't think that there is much to say about Deidara. He didn’t even try to fight back against Naruto. Naruto only hit him with all but one punch. Deidara’s goal was to separate Naruto from Kakashi. Once again this battle was between Deidara and Kakashi. Without Kakashi, Naruto would’ve been defeated in about 2 minutes. Naruto himself was aware of just how useless he was during that entire battle. All his efforts being ineffective is what made him angry enough for the Kyuubi’s charka to begin taking control of him. Who knows what he would’ve done if Kakashi hadn’t suppressed the charka
I want Naruto to finally defeat a serious opponent one on one without any help. The one an only chance he got was against Sasuke and although he did put on an impressive show the outcome was inevitable.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Or Deidara might be dead, which is something Kakashi failed to accomplish. After all, we have no idea how good Naruto actually would be in a real fight to death match now post time skip. He might have needed to go kyuubi coated, but if he had, Deidara probably would have been dead meat or forced to retreat, because he wouldn't have had any nice seal tags to subdue Naruto.
Although it's hard to judge because the one armed Deidara had enabled the cheat mode giving him unlimited clay (that was still all the time running out according to him, yet never did), so who knows, he might have molded a nuclear bomb and defeated kyuubi Naruto that way if needed.
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