One Piece Chapter 511

[docdan63]

I am confused. Are you saying that pirates of 'ye olde times' knew of ways to beat typical logia users but that doesn't translate into beating someone of an admiral level? because I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you there.


I think what Death Boo Z means is that any logia users we see from now on in the New World will most likely know of more advanced ways to utilize their devil fruit abilities because the possibility of being harmed physically calls for better methods of offense/defense.

Yes thats what I'm saying. But, I was elaborating further by saying that the pirates now, don't have as many crew members, but each one they do have is very skilled and equal of like, 10 guys of a rookie back in WBs' and Shanks' days. Plus I think they had harder times getting through stuff because they didn't have the same concentrated highly skilled crew members. I can't speak for the future and I'm not trying too. I'm speaking for the past and what the past has become. Any Yonkou commander can probably take 3, 4, 5, or 6 pascifistas down with one hand tied behind they're back. Other wise WB wouldn't be confident enough to declare war on a group that has all logia (we might as well count Akainu as a logia folks, come on) users and a massive fleet underneath them which as admirals, they probably know some good tactics for ship maneuvers too. I'm saying that Luffy's crew is strong very, but I think where Luffy's crew is now, WB's and Shanks' were much stronger, and growing exponentially with crew members, ships, commander powers, and skill.


As a NW whore and the fan who wants to see it the most out of any fan ever, I completely agree with that. However, how many more can there be? I mean the elements of the world are drying up in terms of being used in the story.

What other element left is there?

I mean look:

Ace (fire)
Blackbeard (darkness)
Kizaru (light)
Crocodile (sand. This doesn't count for me, sorry)
Aokiji (ice)
Smoker (smoke. I'm not sure about this one either but it's Odas baby so he can do whatever he wants)
Enel (lightning)

The only ones I can think of are:
wind
water
rock (don't know how that would work)
lava (since Enel and Kizaru exist together. Ace and Akainu should be able too as well)

There aren't that many left. And if the NW is filled with ability users who can school Enel and Aokiji, then what will they have?

[Assertn]

No doubt about it....Oda has played the logia users as being the strongest in the series longer than the strawhats have been in the grand line. However, we're expected to acknowledge that the yonkou are equal against the marines, even if they represent such a smaller quantity of men and firepower. Surely an admiral wouldn't be able to waltz in and tear their fleets apart, yet unless they had logia users of their own, I don't see how they could do anything to stop them. Raleigh is vastly stronger than all the rookies combined, yet does he even have a devil ability? Do any of the yonkou even have devil abilities?

The series has been running for so long, and yet this has been the closest thing to ACTUAL yonkou-level combat that we've witnessed. Hopefully the next few chapters will shed some light (no pun intended) on what it is exactly that makes these legendary pirates so intimidating.

[docdan63]

No doubt about it....Oda has played the logia users as being the strongest in the series longer than the strawhats have been in the grand line. However, we're expected to acknowledge that the yonkou are equal against the marines, even if they represent such a smaller quantity of men and firepower. Surely an admiral wouldn't be able to waltz in and tear their fleets apart, yet unless they had logia users of their own, I don't see how they could do anything to stop them. Raleigh is vastly stronger than all the rookies combined, yet does he even have a devil ability? Do any of the yonkou even have devil abilities?

The series has been running for so long, and yet this has been the closest thing to ACTUAL yonkou-level combat that we've witnessed. Hopefully the next few chapters will shed some light (no pun intended) on what it is exactly that makes these legendary pirates so intimidating.

Very good point AssertN. TheYonkou have to have at least 1 or 2 logias. Although, OP law says that they're the rarest. Then again, they're the Yonkou so I'm sure that they have ways of getting their hands on soe good ones. And I'm sure they've seen the guidebook on them that Blackbeard saw. So they probably know whats up with the shapes and powers.

All of this logia talk got me thinking. Isn't there a rule somewhere a long time ago when Oda said that two of the same fruits can't exist in 2 different people or something like that? Or it was some kind of weird rule like that. I know it's something like that I just can't put my finger on it.

Like, if Ace dies, doesn't that open the door to someone getting the next fire fire logia because he died? Wouldn't another one float up and a person can eat it then getting his power? Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

[Assertn]

Like, if Ace dies, doesn't that open the door to someone getting the next fire fire logia because he died? Wouldn't another one float up and a person can eat it then getting his power? Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

I think you guys are confusing this with my own personal explanation, which is a completely fabricated speculation. (I was the one that suggested that the fruits originated from the depths of the sea, as a reincarnation of the previous owner's ability.)

It is a fact, however, that no two of the same abilities exist. This was stated by Sanji when he got pissed off that Absalom found the invisible fruit.

Also, to continue from my previous post regarding logia's influence in the power struggles...I think there is much to be said about how the yonkou manage to represent so much strength. Why is it that the marines must rely on crazy cybernetics and logia powers to maintain a presence in the world balance, while Shanks is missing an arm and Whitebeard is practically incapacitated, neither have any sort of devil abilities, and yet all hell breaks lose if one of them is angered? It should be safe to assume that Shanks and Whitebeard are the strongest members of their respective crews, so what do they have that nobody else has?

[Splash!]

I think you guys are confusing this with my own personal explanation, which is a completely fabricated speculation. (I was the one that suggested that the fruits originated from the depths of the sea, as a reincarnation of the previous owner's ability.)

Perhaps the part about the fruit floating up from the deep seas, but I think Oda has pointed out that the same Devil fruit powers can't exist AT THE SAME TIME, which means that a new user of the same power may emerge once the previous one dies, which is sort of the point.

[docdan63]

I think you guys are confusing this with my own personal explanation, which is a completely fabricated speculation. (I was the one that suggested that the fruits originated from the depths of the sea, as a reincarnation of the previous owner's ability.)


Also, to continue from my previous post regarding logia's influence in the power struggles...I think there is much to be said about how the yonkou manage to represent so much strength. Why is it that the marines must rely on crazy cybernetics and logia powers to maintain a presence in the world balance, while Shanks is missing an arm and Whitebeard is practically incapacitated, neither have any sort of devil abilities, and yet all hell breaks lose if one of them is angered? It should be safe to assume that Shanks and Whitebeard are the strongest members of their respective crews, so what do they have that nobody else has?

Well, AssertN I think you're right. We don't know where the tree is, but I think many times I've seen clips of fruits in mass quantities floating up to the surface. So I think you have a point with that. As to whether or not the fruit tree is under water, or anything like that, I don't know. I've heard it is in the GL in the NW somewhere. Which would make the fruits appearing in random places floating around, kind of odd and extremely lucky for people. I mean depending on story, or what have you. Do you know how lucky a logia user would have to be to attain that fruit? Plus, at least we know how BB got his fruit. I mean I don't know about you guys, but it's been bugging the fuck out of me how we don't know where or how certain people got their fruits. Mostly logias, but like, how did Lucci get his leopard fruit? How did Aokiji get his? Or Kizaru? Or better yet, Ace for that matter? It's not that big of a deal but it's been bothering me.

I think WB and Shanks just have the presence over time built up. We're starting to see it with Luffy naturally as well. And he's still really young. Which brings me to my next point, WB is really old. His power is probably near Rayleighs, if not greater. I think all of the Yonkou are actually regular men. Their crews on the other hand, nuh uh. Not at all. Most of the power of the Yonkou comes from their crew and fleet(s) IMO. Aokiji only needs his sleep mask and a bike and he's still untouchable and able to go anywhere he wants. Ace only needs his boat and he's good to go (well, before his execution I mean) Although, I have to admit, each Yonkou can probably handle themselves on their own. For example I don't think Kaidou beat Moria with his own crew. He did, broke off on his own, and became really powerful with his own crew after he beat him. At least thats what I've been thinking.

@splash
Why is that everyone seems to think dragon has a logia fruit? Did I miss something way back in the anime that was shown that proved he has one? To me, he seems to be one of the only guys who're actually able to get physically stronger and rely on his men as well as plain good old fashion weaponry to do his dirty work for him. Not a fruit or ability. But if I'm missing something let me know, please. Seriously though everyone has added him to the roster of having a logia fruit. I just want to know why? And if so then what logia do you guys think he has?

[Splash!]

As a NW whore and the fan who wants to see it the most out of any fan ever, I completely agree with that. However, how many more can there be? I mean the elements of the world are drying up in terms of being used in the story.

Yeah, I myself have also wondered what other elements Oda could possibly introduce as they seem to be running out. However, when I say Logia users of the New world, I include people like the admirals, blackbeard, dragon, etc. We really haven't necessarily seen all that they can do with their logia abilities when they are faced with someone who can fight them at an equal level. Maybe this fight (if there is one) between Rayleigh and Kizaru will also serve to show newer ways to use a logia.

Like, if Ace dies, doesn't that open the door to someone getting the next fire fire logia because he died? Wouldn't another one float up and a person can eat it then getting his power? Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

Yeah thats correct. I think Oda explained that in one of his interviews.