Being instantly killed by such a jutsu would be an epic fail in my book
He would probably open 6 of the 8 gates and the power of all that raw chakra alone should be enough to disperse the fog
The only reason he was captured by Zabuza like that was because he had to protect those 4 bums
My bad, i meant to say Kisame. I corrected it.
I don't think it would have made a difference.Originally Posted by The Archangel
water-clone kakashi kills ~ waterclone zabuza -> water clone zabuza-2 kills ~ waterclone kakashi -> real kakashi kills waterclone Zabuza-2 -> Real zabuza sneaks up from behind and tries to kill kakashi who escaped into the water...
so he was always one step ahead... Naruto and Sasuke even were a help because Zabuza got distracted by them and Kakashi's speech about "not letting his teammates die"...
they weren't a burden at all.
in the end they even rescued him
He has to always have one sharingan on his adversary and the other eye
on the bums, you can't tell me that didn't have anything to do with it.
tell me what could have changed if the kids weren't there?
"one eye": Kakashi succeded in killing the first water clone even though Zabuza suprised him by "spawning" between the kids
"both eyes focussed on him": Kakashi succeded in killing the first water clone....
well thats it, the result is the same, after all that the kids were out of the game... Zabuza didn't give a shit about them until he had Kakashi into his prison...
and most of all... kakashi used them as bait and waited for zabuza to make his move
and btw... Kisame and Zabuza use the very same techniques if I remember correctly... the only difference is that Zabuza has to fight near water and Kisame can create his own water..
when he fought Guy, he used -> water prison -> water clone -> several "water wave" jutus (or something like that)
and to be honest, I think "might guy" is not that "mighty"... at least from what he showed us in the fight against kisame... without his gates his taijutsu seems very weak not even close to that of Lee (lol)
well he was probably wearing 500 tons of weight or so.
Btw I have no doubt that Kisame is strong, I just think that Guy is bad for judging how strong he really is... imho Guy is not a real ninja... and he will always have a disadvantage against Jutsu users imho... the same goes for Lee.
Last edited by KrayZ33; Thu, 10-02-2008 at 03:42 PM.
Abdula pretty much said everything i was too lazy to write.
Seriously this whole discussion has little merit as it is but after you saying that Gai is weaker than Lee it's not even worth to continue it.
But just FYI, in Gai's last cannon fight he turned on an extra gate than Lee did in the Gaara fight and his killing move sent his opponent down in a ball of flames... all that just by the use of his fists...
Kakashi was soft back then, the first time they met if it was Gai in that situation and not Kakashi, Gai would have won straight up, no questions asked. If Kakashi was being serious he could have beaten him then and there too, and as I remember it was Haku who stepped in to save Zabuza. And forget that stupid water prison. Gai has more than enough speed and strength that he would have been able to take care of Zabuza without even using the gates. You mentioned Kakashi was always one step behind do you really think that would have been the same if it were Gai.
And how were Sasuke, Sakura, Naruto and the guy they where protecting not a burden. The reason he wanted them to leave is so he could fight properly and no the water prison would not have been the end of Kakashi. He would have never even been caught in the water prison in the first place if he wasn't trying to protect them. Speaking of them, considering where the two teams were at that point Team Gai was way better than Kakashi's team was. Gai, Lee, Neji and Tenten would lose to Zabuza and Haku, yeah right. Anyway the fact of the matter is Kakashi won.
Yeah right Gai's taijutsu is even weaker than Lee's and Gai is not a real ninja. Why don't you tell that to Kisame or tell Kakashi that his life long rival and the man who goes around saying that he is stronger than Kakashi, is not a real ninja. I won't even comment on you saying Gai's taijutsu is weaker than Lee's. I wonder if we're even watching the same show.
Last edited by Abdula; Thu, 10-02-2008 at 04:19 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
I can only judge from what I've seen and Kisame single handed dodged and blocked all of Guy-sensei's attacks and they weren't faster than Zabuza's side kick
and in the water Guy sensei's taijutsu is useless... that was shown during the fight too, he only one because of his superhuman-saiyajin power
and lee's taijutsu vs Gaara was a lot faster.... and I said "his taijutsu *SEEMS* a lot weaker than Lee's" that was all and because of that I thought he is not that strong
and funny, how you lay out your own thoughts as facts again and say everything else is wrong... kk...
if *you* say soGai has more than enough speed and strength that he would have been able to take care of Zabuza without even using the gates
(why not btw?)You mentioned Kakashi was always one step behind do you really think that would have been the same if it were Gai.
ya after Naruto and Sasuke rescued him out of the water prisonIf Kakashi was being serious he could have beaten him then and there too, and as I remember it was Haku who stepped in to save Zabuza
because he used them as bait, what would have changed if they were not there?And how were Sasuke, Sakura, Naruto and the Gai they where protecting not a burden
Zabuza himself said that, because of his speech about "how he protects everyone" the "fake kakashi" got his full attention and he though he's the real one
Oo? uhm.... *no*The reason he wanted them to leave is so he could fight properly and no the water prison would not have been the end of Kakashi
and btw... Naruto is Sasukes rival too, yet we all know how much he sucks...
Last edited by KrayZ33; Thu, 10-02-2008 at 04:39 PM.
Well this was a huge waste of time. Anyway KraY
Its not that we think that, its just that that is the way it is. I'm sure if the Zabuza of then had to face the present Naruto or Sasuke he would lose and thats just the way it is.this is exactly what you 2 guys are doing... you think that people without ultra supa powers have no chance of winning at all....
normal jutsus are useless even though they have killed 100000 of ninjas with it before (fog-jutsu for example)
I think the protagonist being a 12 year old when the show started was a big clue as to what age the target audience is.
Last edited by Abdula; Thu, 10-02-2008 at 05:10 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
---------------
whatever
this is exactly what you 2 guys are doing... you think that people without ultra supa powers have no chance of winning at all....Naruto is moving on into this god-tier, and only those characters that can move up with him are going to continue to play a role in the series. Because that's who the enemies are.
normal jutsus are useless even though they have killed thousands of ninjas with it before (fog-jutsu for example)
It's probably my fault that I'm so naive to think that this show is a bit more serious than dragonballs, even though I know myself that it isn't...so you are most likely right.
and I'm not saying that because I want to end this conversation but because I just realised for myself that naruto is really made for 12 years old.
harrr... I know that it will never get back to what it was in the beginning, were ninjas were ninjas and it makes me feel sad
Last edited by KrayZ33; Thu, 10-02-2008 at 04:56 PM.
Shinji is 14 and I wouldn't say that NGE is meant for 12 years old
and the very first episodes were really well done and had what someone wanted to see from a show with "ninjas"
and naruto has it's moments where you think: "awesome!!"
Oro vs Hokage etc. those are scenes which I really enjoy.
and ya I think everyone knows now that I like Zabuza very much... but the way he died.. and the whole story about Haku and the fight against the demon brothers etc.... it really felt right for me to watch this. I think I was around 16 or 17 when I started to watch this show..
Last edited by KrayZ33; Thu, 10-02-2008 at 05:39 PM.
What about the wording in my post made you think I meant that every show with a young protagonist is meant for kids.
Yeah, Zabuza had a great feel to him and he was an intimidating character but he wasn't all that, he even admitted that Haku was already stronger than he was.
Last edited by Abdula; Thu, 10-02-2008 at 05:51 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Yeah, and Haku isn't even a match for a 0-tail Kyuubi Naruto.
and if the protagonist age doesn't matter... why do you say that the age of the protagonist could give me a clue?I think the protagonist being a 12 year old when the show started was a big clue as to what age the target audience is.
now I haveta go back and watch the zabuza arc now... thanks a lot guys.
you would think that the harder part in making a great anime would be the beginning, the birth of it, yet bleach and naruto just show me otherwise.
While I think the beginning is probably very hard, there's also the matter of "running out of ideas after 300 episodes".
That's why most of the best shows are the ones that are able to end on their own terms rather than the ones that just keep going and going until their popularity wanes and they get canceled.
Apparently, Oda is some kind of freak for being able to keep One Piece new and interesting seemingly indefinitely.
Ohh for sure. FMA, Death Note, Cowboy Beebob, just to name a few. And as pissed as I am to see all these great series go there's a good chance it would just end up getting stale and making it have less an impact if kept alive much longer... Back in the day with Mobile suit gundam, they couldve ended it with the original and it would have been just as classic, idk if Zeta did it justice really... I know ZZ didn't. At lest it ended well the Chars counter attack.
Is something wrong with DB's website?
The problem isn't keeping it interesting, as it would have been at the very least pretty interesting if they kept to a proper manga chapters to anime episodes ratio and stopped messing around with all the bullcrap they flood the episodes with and uncalled for filler arcs.
The problem is that they hit a certain amount of popularity and they seem to be trying to squeeze as much money out of it as they possibly can before it all goes tits up...
Respect the joindate, not the postcount ;P
You don't know just how right you are
I remember when they used to either follow the manga completely or add substancial content to this anime that was actually very good ( like the kakashi vs. sakura and naruto fight ) but lately every time they try to squeeze a couple of minutes off you can always tel, when that shit isn't cannon because of its horrible quality.
The series definitely had more substance in its early episodes. Everything was meaningful and sometimes even powerful in the way it relates to the average person. (i'm talking pre-filler of course)
It's almost like whoever writes the filler is afraid to trample on future manga plot possibilities, so they purposefully stay away from anything with substance to it.
Much like trying to feed more people by adding water to the stew, it ruins the flavor.
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