Toaru Majutsu no Index

[shinta|hikari]

Touma never planned anything because he didn't have the information to plan anything. It was either an unexpected fight, or an unknown situation.

He is supposed to be quick-witted, being able to come up with a plan the moment he realizes something. This has been shown in all of his other fights.

This time, he completely wastes a good opportunity. Making the opponent underestimate you is part of strategy, not luck. If he managed to beat the shit out of Accelerator when he slapped the hand away, the experiments should cease.

I know I am being picky, but it could have been done much, much better so easily that I am irritated why they had to present it in such a manner.

@Xelbair - That's true. If accelerator steps on the ground and changes the speed enough that it can destroy the earth, and adjust the recoil to his body towards the ground as well, the planet would be destroyed twice over.

[Buffalobiian]

@Xelbair - That's true. If accelerator steps on the ground and changes the speed enough that it can destroy the earth, and adjust the recoil to his body towards the ground as well, the planet would be destroyed twice over.

There may be a limit to how he can change vectors. Perhaps his total energy manipulation can only be equal to a certain constant times his own body mass (ie, k x mc^2 where m=his body mass) or something. Otherwise, it's just infinite power. It's like Mikoto can save the planet by providing the entire world with "clean energy".

I just don't think it'll work that way, that's all.

[shinta|hikari]

I hope so. Maybe Touma will figure out a loophole in the guy's powers.

[RyougaZell]

Is he acting rashly? Yes
Is he acting stupid? Yes

Does he have the time to plan? No

If he takes time to plan MISAKA 10032 would be dead by now... and maybe even Mikoto would have gone to fight.

Setting aside the Index incident... he was indeed thrown directly towards Lezzard... but Styl did give him information on him. He didn't plan though because he isn't a freaking genius.

And anyway... you were ranting about he forgetting what he did against Styl and Kaori... whereas the current Touma only has known Styl as a semi-ally.

[shinta|hikari]

You know, I came up with a plan to defeat Accelerator with the information given in less than 10 seconds. Anyone could, actually. It is not foolproof, nor is it complete to the details, but it sure beats slapping away the chance handed to you.

Touma had minutes to do it when he was running to the scene.

I can't believe you still think I am referring to knowledge about magic and powers when I talk about the incidents from before. I am referring to his ability to use the information, which should remain despite memory loss.

What exactly is your definition of a plan? It doesn't have to be Light or Lelouch level in complexity. It can be as simple as waiting for a chance to grab the enemy and beat him silly. When Touma approached the alchemist, he had a plan, which he formed in less than a minute when he realized the true nature of the enemy's power. It is this lack of consistency that irks me.

[Xelbair]

I would love to see fight Accelerator vs mage. I'm interested in his power to reflect - meybe magic follow other rules than normal physics and fight would not be like "I'm sooo imba and i'm gonna kill you after having fun with beating you up"...

[fireheart]

I don't know about the whole plan thing, like others said it'd probably be kinda boring if he just went in there with any kind of weapon and swung it towards the back of his head as in a surprise attack also there's no point in fighting him unless they actually fight head on. Besides he's using a lot of range attacks including those that surrounds him which making it harder for him to approach him. Also seeing as he's throwing physical stuff at him his Imagine breaker is pretty useless. Right now he pretty much just needs to get close and throw a couple of punches at him.

[Kraco]

Something about that bothers me, which is why I wrote what I did. It's probably the weak link (in your theory) between these ESP powers and the reality. Moreover, you can't return the uncertainty once the power has been used already because that has become the real reality already at that point. It would make sense he could render someone unable to use the power when touched, but it doesn't make sense an already altered reality could be returned to the "normal" state. Well, that seems to be the case with Accelerator and the shit flying around, but Mikoto's case still fights againt this in my opinion. Also the fire used by Stiyl, The Fire Mage.

There seems to exist a discrepancy between how matter and energy are treated in this series.

[Ryllharu]

I have to disagree, mostly because everyone is so shocked that his power works that way. It absolutely makes no sense that Touma reinserts the uncertainty of the world, but that is why I strangely find it to be the most plausible explanation given Lolita-sensei's explanation behind the science. That's why Espers are so confused by the effect, because most of them probably know the science too.

I don't think it actually is returning to a "normal" state. Just a different uncertain state. That appears "normal" enough to the observer, hence the cancellation of the altered reality. Nothing is reversed, just, "returned to the inside of the box."

With Mikoto, Touma's ability just makes a jumble of everything again. Lighting (one of her abilities) is created when all the charges in the air align to make a column. The negative charge in the clouds then shoots down this column to the positively charged object (in this case, Touma). Touma jumbles the alignment of column right at the level of his right arm (since he can only affect it locally), so the effect is only cancelled in his immediate vicinity, and disperses around him as electricity might normally. He replaced that uncertainty about the alignment of the charged particles right near him, shooting the electric discharge off in all directions through a disorganized field. Her normal blasts work the same way, so they are cancelled the same way. However, her railgun is different, and she intentionally missed him, and is why he avoids Accelerator's projectiles. Can't stop what is already been done, as we saw when Touma's arm was sliced off.

I agree with you on the fire for the most part, but fire is just plasma in fluid form, and can be affected by the same particle phyiscs. So Touma could theoretically cancel the fire itself. As for the heat which would already have been created...Touma would be incinerated either way, I agree there. But that is one of the abilities of a magic user, we aren't supposed to understand the science behind that.

EDIT:

Okay, I've worked out a plausible explanation for the heat too. If magic is just divine intervention on the same level of an Esper, then Stiyl's (or any other Esper's abilities) come from reversing the laws of thermodynamics among others. They are [B]reducing[B] entropy (simply described as the disorder/randomness of a system, which always increases). Touma is just replacing that entropy taken out. This would reduce the heat created by the flames as well by reversing the system Stiyl's magic creates.

[fireheart]

To lazy to check if it's already been mentioned but where you guys aware that Stiyl was only 14 years old?

Ryll: Don't quite think that works with the heat since the heat surrounds him more than just one way, which means his hand shouldn't be able to cancel out all the hot air. The same should go for all the lightning bolts as well if he only cancels out what he's touching unless it's got some kind of range and cancels the whole distorted reality that he touches. Besides they haven't properly explained his imagine breaker anyway so they'll probably do it at some point.

[Buffalobiian]

Well, them talking about how Esper powers are really the user's distorted reality,
Imagine Breaker suddenly makes sense. Imagination Breaker would make more sense, but it's close enough.

[Munsu]

That's true about the teleporter thing... but maybe it happened that way because she was trying to teleport the whole body, so that might prevent the power from manifesting. So, it may not be representative, but a good example.

Still, he was on the floor and clearly scared. I think we can forgive him this once. I think his only plan was to land a solid knockout punch and that's about it. Also, even if grabbing the dude might have the desired effects, Touma probably doesn't know it.

[shinta|hikari]

Everybody makes mistakes I guess.

I just hope it doesn't become a pattern. I am waiting for Touma to kick Accelerator's ass without help next episode, as unlikely as it may seem.

[RyougaZell]

I think Touma never had the complete information regarding Accelerator's powers. My guess is he was expecting someone like the alchemist or like Mikoto, not someone that could throw anything due to his vector power.

And as Munsu said... he got scared noticing in what deep shit he had gotten. All for MISAKA and Mikoto.

[Ryllharu]

Well, I could be wrong, that was just how I took it. I'd have to rewatch the episode, but given how easily he kills MISAKAs, you are probably right. Still...if a MISAKA is equal to a 156th of a Mikoto, then it's possible she could survive a number of their encounters.

I imagine a lot of their battles would be back an forth things. She zaps at him, he reversed it, she railguns, he reverses it...until he throws a non-metallic at her and she fails to vaporize it.

Eh, you're probably correct.


I just really liked the way you Freudian slipped on spelling 'statistics.' One 't' away from 'sadistic,' which the scientists certainly are.

[RyougaZell]

Argh... actually... I think Im still sleepy and made a spanglish there... estadistica... or something.

But yeah... Mikoto told Touma that the computer predicted she could survive 125 moves, but that she was afraid that she could not even survive the first move. And somewhere she mentioned that since they could not clone a 100% faithful Mikoto they had to make 20,000 MISAKAs

[Archangel]

So they got tired of just giving him 1 girl at a time so they're giving him a whole army of them at once? This anime is gonna spawn more hentai than naruto once it really picks up.

Anyway, overpowered anyone? At this time i cant really come up with a way for Touma to win this battle other than accelerator making the mistake of being too cocky and going for him head on, and even then he would have to come up with come amazing combo to knock him out in that small windows of opportunity.

This is off topic but i didn't have the chance to discuss this last time since i just recently began watching this show:

- Am i the only one who didn't buy Stiyl's explanation that the dragon that came from Touma's arm was a product of the alchemist's power?

My guess is that it was the next phase or maybe the true form of Imagine Breaker, maybe a power that not only negates another ones reality, but all of reality itself.

A crazy theory i know, but it just kinda came to me.

[Buffalobiian]

Anyway, overpowered anyone?

Everyone.

- Am i the only one who didn't buy Stiyl's explanation that the dragon that came from Touma's arm was a product of the alchemist's power?

I don't know, I bought it. Sounded fair game that since he's going ballistic and trying to use his powers at the same time, he's turning his fears into reality.

[Archangel]

I don't know, I bought it. Sounded fair game that since he's going ballistic and trying to use his powers at the same time, he's turning his fears into reality.

Why a dragon then?? If he was turning his fears into reality shouldn't it have been something more specific? Anyway i hope i'm right, i've been dying to see an upgrade to imagine breaker, just defending powers is getting boring.

[Buffalobiian]

Why a dragon? You'll have to ask him He was thinking Touma was a monster, so I'd assume a dragon is a monster of that calibre for the freaked-out alchemist.