One Piece Episode 402

[Marik]

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[Kraco]

Somehow the dynamics were somewhat lacking in this episode. The pirates were underperforming and standing still while the bad guys were using their powers to the max and moving around. You'd think the other rookies would have had quite a few tricks in their pockets if they have bounties equal to Luffy. Instead they seemed to run out of them really fast unless this was just a Rocky moment of them accepting hits before really getting up (but it didn't look like that).

Also Zoro, who after beating the steel fruit guy should be able to cut anything, was having lots of trouble against a robot. Sure, the laser beams were troublesome (although they could have waited the clone runs out of batteries), but with a little bit of distraction the clone would have become scrap metal.

Nevertheless, it looks like whoever is going to make a stand against the World government should start by killing Vegapunk. The guy is serious trouble.

[Archangel]

Somehow the dynamics were somewhat lacking in this episode. The pirates were underperforming and standing still while the bad guys were using their powers to the max and moving around. You'd think the other rookies would have had quite a few tricks in their pockets if they have bounties equal to Luffy. Instead they seemed to run out of them really fast unless this was just a Rocky moment of them accepting hits before really getting up (but it didn't look like that).

That's not really a testament to how weak they are, but how strong the marine's top forces can be

Scratch Apoo's power sucked. At first I thought he was a Sound Logia, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Dude he sliced a arm and then the upper torso of the guy at a distance! That would be lethal to anyone who isn't a Logia

Also, i'd assume that's the music fruit

[Kraco]

Also, i'd assume that's the music fruit

Looked more like an orchestra fruit, but who knows. We might still get a logia type sound fruit at some point, which could be really cool as it should rely on audio more heavily than explicit action usually does (not to say audio would be unimportant for any effect and scene - far from it).

[Assertn]

That would be ridiculous if a music fruit could turn your body into various instruments. All of the fruits we've seen so far have been based on natural phenomena. There's nothing natural about clarinets or keyboards.

[DarthEnderX]

Also, Capone's fruit apparently turned his insides into some kind of castle.

Dude he sliced a arm and then the upper torso of the guy at a distance! That would be lethal to anyone who isn't a Logia

Yeah, but the way that scene was set up, with Kizaru basically talking smack about how none of them could hurt a Logia user, then Scratch starts his attack and starts emitting sound waves I though "oooh snap! Sound logia!" But then it turned out he's just an instrument man or some shit.

[Assertn]

Or Capone is a giant cyborg that ate a fruit which lets him shrink himself to normal human size ;P

[Archangel]

Or Capone is a giant cyborg that ate a fruit which lets him shrink himself to normal human size ;P

I noticed you ignored all my arguments. Does that mean we're done with that?

Yeah, but the way that scene was set up, with Kizaru basically talking smack about how none of them could hurt a Logia user, then Scratch starts his attack and starts emitting sound waves I though "oooh snap! Sound logia!" But then it turned out he's just an instrument man or some shit.

Well you could have figured it out that there would be no way for a Logia user to have a bounty that low

Just to give an example, Oda said that if Enel had a bounty it would be of 500.000.000

[poopdeville]

Also, Luffy is in Second Gear but is running at his regular speed... Actually, everything seemed to be in slow motion.

[RasenDori]

ok so kizarus really strong and has that scary speed of light thing going on... but what really creeps me out is that he looks just like my father. the mannerisms are even similar. every time i look at the guy its just plane creepy.

[antiravage]

The pacifistas are made from a material stronger than steel, and zoro can’t cut steel with just any attack from his repertoire, the only attack zoro has that is proved to be capable of cutting steel is the one he used to beat Mr.1, and notice that was the exact same attack Zoro used against Kuma back in Triller Bark.

Also, the rookies are facing one of the three admirals, it was obvious they were going to get their asses kicked, they never stood a chance, it wouldn’t make sense considering the three admirals are the strongest forces the marines have, a force that helps to keep the balance between the imperators, the shishibukai and the marines. Remember how strong Aokiji was? Kisaru is around that level of power, the rookies still have to grow before they can compete with the legends ala Rayleigh, Kisaru, Blackbeard, Whitebeard…

[DarthEnderX]

I get the impression that Drake is gonna be an important character in the future what with being a former Rear-admiral and all. He knows things about the world government that none of the other pirates will know. Plus, T-Rex fruit! Hell yeah!

Scratch Apoo's power sucked. At first I thought he was a Sound Logia, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

[Kraco]

The pacifistas are made from a material stronger than steel, and zoro can’t cut steel with just any attack from his repertoire, the only attack zoro has that is proved to be capable of cutting steel is the one he used to beat Mr.1, and notice that was the exact same attack Zoro used against Kuma back in Triller Bark.

I never said Zoro should have sliced the clone with a ranged attack. That's why I said Luffy and Sanji should have distracted the robot (who never even seemed inclined to move much), and Zoro would have sneaked behind him and cut him in half. Because he can cut everything and nothing now. That was clearly stated back then. That was pretty much the whole point of the fight against Mr 1.

Also, the rookies are facing one of the three admirals, it was obvious they were going to get their asses kicked, they never stood a chance, it wouldn’t make sense…

Haha. I never said they should have beaten the logia admiral. I merely meant at least some of them should have been able to escape. But honestly they were just standing still and taking a beating, never really trying to fight back in a convincing manner.

[Sentenal]

I never said Zoro should have sliced the clone with a ranged attack. That's why I said Luffy and Sanji should have distracted the robot (who never even seemed inclined to move much), and Zoro would have sneaked behind him and cut him in half. Because he can cut everything and nothing now. That was clearly stated back then. That was pretty much the whole point of the fight against Mr 1.

The point of Zoro's fight with Mr. 1 was to learn to cut Steel. Not everything. I remember after the fight, before Mr. 1 lost consciousness, he asked him something like "Are you going to try and cut diamond next?", implying that he couldn't then. So he can cut Steel with that move he used to beat Mr. 1, but Pacifistas are harder than steel. It isn't surprising he can't cut that stuff easy. I mean, if it didn't work against Kuma, why would it work now?

[RyougaZell]

I never said Zoro should have sliced the clone with a ranged attack. That's why I said Luffy and Sanji should have distracted the robot (who never even seemed inclined to move much), and Zoro would have sneaked behind him and cut him in half. Because he can cut everything and nothing now.

An attack from the back is a shame for a Swordsman.
Remember Zoro's fight with Mihawk. He said that a cut to the back is very shameful. That same pride applies when they fight. He's never cut anyone on the back through all the series. He is a direct fighter, even if the battle is hopeless.

[chambers]

all the supernovas are really cool i hope they arent killed off now. I think it would be really nice if instead of some shitty filler episodes they showed us a part of the journey of one of the other supernovas crews, scratch man apoo imho seems very cool and also the giant angel guy should have some interesting backstory i think. In time i guess we will hear drakes as its more than likley an important story element. I wonder how far eustaces powers go? if he realizes hes fighting a machine can he rip it to pieces with his fruit?

[DarthEnderX]

An attack from the back is a shame for a Swordsman.
Remember Zoro's fight with Mihawk. He said that a cut to the back is very shameful. That same pride applies when they fight. He's never cut anyone on the back through all the series. He is a direct fighter, even if the battle is hopeless.

I think you have that backwards. When he says that, he doesn't mean that he should never attack an enemy from the back, he means that he should never turn his back on his enemy, as in, never turn to run away.

Zoro will never turn his back to the enemy, because it would make him dishonorable, but if his enemy were to do it, that's his enemies dishonor, not his.

[Kraco]

You can't cut Kuma because of the repel fruit ability. It has got nothing to do with being able to cut everything. You can't cut logia types, either.

And I'm not thinking in as concrete manner as you are. When fighting against Mr. 1 Zoro was thinking back to the old lesson of being able to cut nothing. It was a fundamental part of being able to cut everything, not to cut steel. Or let's say to understand any material and thus be able to cut it. Steel as such has got nothing to do with it. It was just one important step, because normally you aren't able to cut steel. Maybe he would need to learn also to cut Pacifista's material, but that shouldn't be so hard anymore for him, after having already learned the fundamental lesson.

Besides, Zoro said he won't cut diamonds, because it would be a waste. And what would a dying man anyway know of Zoro's discoveries, even more so because Mr. 1 wasn't even a swordsman.

[Sentenal]

Kuma didn't use his fruit ability to stop Zoro's attack. Zoro did exactly what you suggested he do against the Pacifista. Come up from behind, and cut him. Zoro sliced through the clothes on his shoulder, cut down to the robotic parts, but didn't cut it off. Kuma isn't a Logia type, and he repels things with the Paws on his hands.

Plus, the idea of "cutting nothing, and cutting everything", is just that. And idea. It doesn't mean Zoro has fully mastered the concept.

Also, in the Manga, when Mr.1 asked him if he would try to cut through Diamond next, Zoro said "I don't know yet."
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/196/12/

[poopdeville]

You can't cut Kuma because of the repel fruit ability. It has got nothing to do with being able to cut everything.

We've seen Kumas with and without the paw paw fruit.

And I'm not thinking in as concrete manner as you are. When fighting against Mr. 1 Zoro was thinking back to the old lesson of being able to cut nothing. It was a fundamental part of being able to cut everything, not to cut steel. Or let's say to understand any material and thus be able to cut it. Steel as such has got nothing to do with it. It was just one important step, because normally you aren't able to cut steel. Maybe he would need to learn also to cut Pacifista's material, but that shouldn't be so hard anymore for him, after having already learned the fundamental lesson.

Fundamental does not mean "complete". It is the beginning of the idea. Cutting Mr. 1 was certainly an achievement, but Zoro cannot cut just anything. Indeed, we have seen him fail.

Remember, Mihawk's sword was the one famous for being able to cut anything, and Zoro is working to surpass him. It's not so surprising Zoro is weaker half way through the Grand Line. Rayleigh is supposedly 100 times stronger than Luffy...