One Piece Episode 404

[Assertn]

Speed of light and mantra are still irrelevant in such a fight. One of them could attack the other one in their sleep and nothing would happen. Lightning is not vulnerable to light, and light is not vulnerable to lightning.

Edit: Lol, I can't really counter-argue a point made via rep, especially over manga content, since I can neither post here nor in PM. However, a fight between two paramecia types is a little more up in the air than two logia types. Plus, don't forget that *spoiler stuff etc etc*

Basic rule of thumb: With logia, it's considered immune unless proven otherwise. With paramecia, it's considered vulnerable unless proven otherwise.

[The Chancellor]

Edit: Lol, I can't really counter-argue a point made via rep, especially over manga content, since I can neither post here nor in PM. However, a fight between two paramecia types is a little more up in the air than two logia types. Plus, don't forget that *spoiler stuff etc etc*

Basic rule of thumb: With logia, it's considered immune unless proven otherwise. With paramecia, it's considered vulnerable unless proven otherwise.

Wouldn't that be true with zoan's as well then? I'm sure a gazelle fruit would be no match for Lucci unless he was the fastest zoan alive.

[Assertn]

Wouldn't that be true with zoan's as well then? I'm sure a gazelle fruit would be no match for Lucci unless he was the fastest zoan alive.

Not necessarily. If some regular joe ate a lion fruit, I'm sure Kaku could still kick his ass.

[The Chancellor]

Not necessarily. If some regular joe ate a lion fruit, I'm sure Kaku could still kick his ass.

Then you're saying that the martial arts style they knew was the difference? Yeah I could see that. Wouldn't that mean that if a little girl found Aokijis or Crocodiles fruit floating in on a dock somewhere and took a bite, then she could hypothetically go to the marines and demand to be an admiral? Actually, I've wondered that for a while. I know this forum likes to talk about fruits and stuff, but what would happen if that did in fact happen? I mean if a little girl or an average joe did eat a logia fruit, and found out that they were virtually unstoppable, would they go to the marines and try and become an admiral? Would they have the presence and reputation to start a powerful pirate crew from that fruit alone?

What do you think would happen?

[Assertn]

Hah well, I'm sure earning respect is one requirement to get people to follow you. With the marines, you need to prove your loyalty and capacity to get the job done. In Robin's flashbacks, Aoukiji had his ice powers even back when he was still just a vice admiral, so he had to climb the ranks just like anyone else it seems. Same with Smoker, who is a logia type but just recently got promoted from captain to commander (were those the titles?).

Granted, I'm sure its easier to climb ranks if you're a logia.

[chambers]

come on, you have to look at this logically and say that the world government is the dominant power in one piece at this stage. The two main arms of power for the world government are the royal sichibukai and the marines. Of the marines we can already assume the power of the marines far outstrips that of the sichibukai, evidence to support this is the fact that luffy has beaten already 2 sichibukai, and has been utterly dominated by 2 admirals.

So its safe to assume that in terms of raw power the marines have the edge due to a) sheer numbers and b) stronger "top draw" characters.

Compare the WG to the pirates, right now it seems that the super novas are occupying a similar role to that of the sichibukai, they are far far weaker than the 4E of the grand line and yet are still needed for some reason (evidence of this is both silvers and shanks saving luffy possibly both at a great cost to themselves). Although at this point in time there could well be much much more powerful sichibukai that we havent seen, and kuma has so far been dominant both times we have seen him, its not to the extent that both admirals have been shown to be.

Realistically both sides must be at a stalemate due to the fact that both sides have exsisted for a long time and neither has made much advancement (at least not in the timeline of the anime since rogers execution).

Compare the positions of ACE and smoker, both are relativley low level and can not really be compared to either the emporers or the admirals. In terms of power they are more than likley both on a similar level to the novas/sichibukai. Taking the fight they had as an example is a poor one to choose because neither has the experince to measure up to somone like silvers or kizaru.

We have seen silvers can stop a loggia user without the aid of a fruit, therefore its safe to assume that at some level of experince or technique it will also be possible for others to do the same, and we can assume that both the 4E and the admirals also know of this. Evidence to support this would be that first of all kizaru was not shocked that somone could stop him, he also commented somthinglike "its the first time in a long time somone has cut him" when silvers stopped him from teleporting. Add to the fact that loggia fruits seem to be frighteningly common second only to zoan types it should be assumed that in order for the government to hold power they must be able to stop a loggia user. Also the other 2 4E's have yet to be revealed and they could both be loggia users for all we know.

If a person of rivaling power to whitebeard possesed a loggia fruit ability and the government could not counter such abilitys like silvers can then there would be no stalemate.

If you take all these points into consideration it is clear IMHO that loggia type fruits must be counterable and even if its only on the highest level, in order to survive against the marines who have already shown us 2 of the 3 admirals and both were loggia users, ALL the 4E MUST be able to counter loggia fruit abilities..... it stands to reason that at least one of the 4E will be a loggia user or have them in there crew and as stated above if the marines ant counter this that emporer will become more dominant than the others and eventually the WG.


And to the point about any random guy eating a fruit, i think we have a few pretty good references of that already in the anime, the 1st would be buggy who despite having an amazing power is one of, if not the weakest captain we have seen yet (but strictley speaking hes a joke character right now...so it mightnot be a valid point). We have also seen that fruits dont instantly catapult somone to superhuman strength and speed as shown by luffys quick and easy defeat of bellamy, but on the other hand they do provide amazing boosts which you can see by looking at the foxy pirate crew. I think in all the power of a person comes from the person they were before they took a fruit, kaku kicked ass before he became a giraffe man so the fruit only multiplied his powers. Luffy comes from a family of incredibly strong, ambitions and influential people and as such was always likley to be strong.

[Assertn]

come on, you have to look at this logically and say that the world government is the dominant power in one piece at this stage. The two main arms of power for the world government are the royal sichibukai and the marines. Of the marines we can already assume the power of the marines far outstrips that of the sichibukai, evidence to support this is the fact that luffy has beaten already 2 sichibukai, and has been utterly dominated by 2 admirals.

The strawhats have been utterly dominated by two shichibukai as well... remember Mihawk and Kuma? Plus the two shichibukai that Luffy defeated were long, painful battles that would have easily tilted the other way had Luffy not gained access to their weak points (Luffy almost died twice to Crocodile, and the losers of the forest gave Luffy his nightmare mode against Oz).