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    So, to answer Ani's earlier question, medical marijuana's pretty limited in its scope, and as far as I can tell never prescribed for anxiety or other psychological conditions, nor is it generally recognized as a treatment for insomnia. One or both of those would probably be better treated by antidepressants, and there's some correlation between drug abuse and both conditions. Which came first is the question... but both have viable non-cannabinoid treatment options.


    More recently, yeah ... drug testing's pretty controversial. I remember having to do a drug test when I started working at a local grocery store, which was kinda bullshit -- you can probably stock shelves roughly as well if you're lightly baked as if you're hung over from abusing a perfectly legal depressant, which may in fact keep you more on task than being sober.

    Anyway, I started a clearance job about 2 years ago that didn't have any such requirement, and involved some classified documents with actual national security implications. Then my most recent job, I did a contract-to-hire arrangement, and had to do a drug test for the contracting company but not for the actual employer. My current employer has a policy that basically says if they're looking for a reason to fire you, they might drug test, but if you're not bringing it to work and it's not affecting your quality of work, they don't care. But then, we have some positions that have higher level clearances that require disclosure of past drug use, and in the case of some of our highest level clearance stuff (TS/SCI full scope)

    A friend of mine got addicted to drugs pretty much as a direct result of a co-op program he was in. He met some other co-op students who introduced him to all sorts of entertaining substances, and he really liked a couple, and went on about an 8 month long stint of heavy use. Then he pretty much disassembled his whole social safety net, and left just a couple of close friends to catch him. It was bad times.

    I guess what I'm saying is ...
    Quote Originally Posted by itadakimasu
    drugs are bad, mmmk
    Something else to be aware of is that for a lot of employers, unfair as it may be, simply asking about their drug testing policy at the interview raises enough red flags to assure them that they probably don't want to get involved with you. In several interviews I've sat in on, the hiring decision was pretty much made when the interviewee asked whether there's a drug testing policy. While a rare interviewer may appreciate your honesty in broaching the subject and give you points for it, most will hear the question as "I won't pass a drug test, is that a problem for you?" Generally, that's the kiss of death on a lot of professional jobs, even at places that don't have any testing policy.

    In faster-moving places (with higher turnover, lower pay, etc) the drug testing is typically expected within 24-48 hours of the interview. With slower-paced places (like the last place I had a drug test for), the company notified me by USPS that I needed a drug test, and followed up a couple days after I got the notice with a phone call telling me who to call and where to go to get it, so there was a window of several days that I knew that they didn't know for sure that I knew -- which could be used to do some good work attempting to either get clean enough to pass or otherwise defeat the drug test, if such a thing were required.

    Hair testing is relatively rare, and I think relatively more expensive. If the company's willing to spring for hair testing, you might ask yourself how serious you are about wanting to work with them -- especially for an internship. Internships are very rarely the serious business that "real" jobs are...

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    What's up, doc? Animeniax's Avatar
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    That's surprising that clearance jobs don't have more stringent drug policies, as a dependence on drugs can easily lead you to sell secret information or otherwise betray your trust in return for money for drugs. I'd be surprised if during the investigation process if they found you had a history of drug use/abuse issues, that that wouldn't preclude you from getting the clearance.

    I need a security clearance. In the government world, it's worth more than a college degree.


    For God will not permit that we shall know what is to come... those who by some sorcery or by some dream might come to pierce the veil that lies so darkly over all that is before them may serve by just that vision to cause that God should wrench the world from its heading and set it upon another course altogether and then where stands the sorcerer? Where the dreamer and his dream?

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    Awesome user with default custom title The Heretic Azazel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by complich8
    So, to answer Ani's earlier question, medical marijuana's pretty limited in its scope, and as far as I can tell never prescribed for anxiety or other psychological conditions, nor is it generally recognized as a treatment for insomnia. One or both of those would probably be better treated by antidepressants, and there's some correlation between drug abuse and both conditions. Which came first is the question... but both have viable non-cannabinoid treatment options.
    As far as California is concerned those are frequent reasons for prescribing. Can't speak for the situations in Colorado and Rhode Island, the only other states with marijuana dispensaries, but I know many people are unhappy with how apparently easy it is to get a medical marijuana card in CA. People often cite examples of anxiety, depression, headaches, and insomnia for prescription reasons. Cancer and AIDS, two conditions upon which more people are accepting of medicinal marijuana, are obviously far worse than those examples, but I believe it's not for another to say how negatively your conditions impact your life. I was on antidepressants for a little while but when I turned 18 I lost my health insurance and haven't seen a doctor since. It's not that I'm going to go through withdrawal if I don't smoke, because I can and have picked it up and put it down at will, but it does help me at the end of the day, especially since lately I've been having stress management issues. My anxiety however has been with me since before I started.

    I'm really just tired of someone waving a fucking jar of piss in front of my face everytime I try to get a job. Like the rest of you I know there are exceptions, I certainly wouldn't want my pilot or doctor high on anything. But when it comes to my IT project analyst I could really care less, it's not like I'm going into a safety sensitive field.
    "They call it 'The American Dream' because you have to be asleep to believe it" - George Carlin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Animeniax
    That's surprising that clearance jobs don't have more stringent drug policies, as a dependence on drugs can easily lead you to sell secret information or otherwise betray your trust in return for money for drugs. I'd be surprised if during the investigation process if they found you had a history of drug use/abuse issues, that that wouldn't preclude you from getting the clearance.

    I need a security clearance. In the government world, it's worth more than a college degree.
    Don't be fooled. It's worth more, but you've gotta have the degree first. No paper and like 90% of the time you probably don't meet the minimum requirements for them to talk to you. If they aren't willing to hire you, they're definitely not gonna shell out the 15-20k it costs them to sponsor you .

    Also, the higher the clearance level, the more invasive the process, the longer the time window, and the more frequently you have to get it renewed. Entry-level clearances (confidential, public trust) usually don't transfer from agency to agency, and are basically worthless except as a demonstration that you're probably "clearable" (makes you more hireable, but not hireable for more).

    Secret and above generally transfer. Secret's generally worth a couple grand, but not that much (like, maybe 5k). TS/SCI with full scope poly is probably worth about 20-30k in the DC metro area or working for defense contractors on defense projects. You only realize that if you change jobs after you're cleared, and take your clearance with you. In the case of TS/SCI, if in the interim you take a non-cleared job, it's likely that your clearance will lapse before you job-hunt again (since TS has like a 5 year lifespan).

    That, and a TS job that actually gives you that pay premium is going to probably involve a complicated bureaucracy, little freedom to create, and restrictions on your ability to travel out of the country. As a bonus, more often than not they're in SCIFs, which it just plain sucks to work at. Honestly, if you're a creative or dynamic person, the difference in pay is about on par with the difference in job satisfaction you're likely to experience. Not worth it, IMO.

    Piece of advice: if you're entertaining clearance jobs any time in the future, keep documentation of everywhere you've lived for the last 10-15 years, including people who aren't related to you who can vouch that you lived there and didn't seem like a terrorist, and keep in touch with those people so that you're comfortable with using them as references when the SF-86 comes rolling your way. Probably the single worst part of that form, especially if the 7-15 years of background check window overlap with a college career that has you living at 3 or 4 different addresses per year (eg: home, a dorm, a summer residence).

    Quote Originally Posted by The Heretic Azazel
    As far as California is concerned those are frequent reasons for prescribing.
    heh ... cali doctors. There is that...

    I'm really just tired of someone waving a fucking jar of piss in front of my face everytime I try to get a job.
    Even though I'm not a drug user at all, ever, I 100% agree with this statement. I find it personally insulting any time I have to put up with that.

  5. #5
    What's up, doc? Animeniax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by complich8
    Don't be fooled. It's worth more, but you've gotta have the degree first. No paper and like 90% of the time you probably don't meet the minimum requirements for them to talk to you. If they aren't willing to hire you, they're definitely not gonna shell out the 15-20k it costs them to sponsor you .

    [Lots of good information.]
    I've worked overseas for the government before and dealt with a lot of guys with security clearances. They were making $150k-300k/yr without a college degree. Of course, that's typically working for 70-80 hours a week in Dubai/Kuwait/Iraq/Afghanistan, but it was generally light duty work.


    For God will not permit that we shall know what is to come... those who by some sorcery or by some dream might come to pierce the veil that lies so darkly over all that is before them may serve by just that vision to cause that God should wrench the world from its heading and set it upon another course altogether and then where stands the sorcerer? Where the dreamer and his dream?

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