Muv-Luv Alternative - Total Eclipse

[Ryllharu]

I can kind of appreciate the fact that that BETA simply use mixed-unit tactics to completely trample humanity. The Destroyers absolutely tear through front line, but as a trade off for that durability, are weak from behind. Yet they in turn are covered by mid-rear forces, the Lasers. Leaping over Destroyers to get at the Lasers would be effective, if not for the third type, which are moderately strong attackers with good mobility.

This is pretty much the way a real alien invasion would go down. If they're advanced enough to cross star systems to get to Earth, they're advanced enough to crush humanity completely. The BETA have overwhelming numbers on their side too. We can't even leave the Solar System, and there are so few stories out there were a race advanced enough to do so doesn't also have the means to dominate Earth.

Still, how or why they're so strong doesn't particularly matter. All that matters is that they push humanity to the brink.

Watching this episode, I also wouldn't say it's a matter of the girls fighting better than the veterans. Everyone sucks against the BETA. Our viewpoint is just focused on them longer. Yui loses a comrade every couple minutes, and that's not even in real time given the cutaways to her uncle, the regular forces, or whoever. The majority of the time where they're surviving, they're retreating at full speed.

[Kraco]

Watching this episode, I also wouldn't say it's a matter of the girls fighting better than the veterans.

It's true they lost members all the time, especially to the laser class (which is why I call the laser class the only really believably tough opponent). However, once they landed in the previous episode, they kept fighting at approximately that same area for a long time, all the way to engaging a whole pile of enemies in melee combat. They only started to lose when the first wave of beta wasn't the only wave, after all. However, the regular military (maybe I shouldn't call them veterans as there's no guarantee of that, but nonetheless they weren't trainees anymore) got simply overrun by the first melee betas.

Since I accept the existence of mecha in a mecha universe, my remaining problem is twofold: Don't try to make the enemies look stronger by making humans look stupid and ineffectual. Don't make n00b main characters look special by making real soldiers far too weak. Neither of these errors in the eps were by any means unavoidable.

We must never forget, 08th MS team is the exception not the rule, in mecha, the younger you are the higher your maximum potential fighting ability is. Veteran mecha pilots can at best fight younger pilots to a stalemate after their first skirmish which the vet may win to show he's not just another grunt, however young pilots always have a fair or better shot at blowing veterans out of the sky regardless of how much actual experience they have.

That's certainly true for great many shows, but it's hardly a universal rule. More often than not it's simply a result of the fact the main characters tend to be young for the sake of the younger audiences. But even in something like Gundam 00 the sheer superiority of the machine and experience seemed to be more important than any other factor (aside from the main character status). My favourite character Ali showed that multiple times, not only in the beginning. He was an old man for action by anime standards, yet kicked more ass than pretty much anybody.

[Xelbair]

It's true they lost members all the time, especially to the laser class (which is why I call the laser class the only really believably tough opponent). However, once they landed in the previous episode, they kept fighting at approximately that same area for a long time, all the way to engaging a whole pile of enemies in melee combat. They only started to lose when the first wave of beta wasn't the only wave, after all. However, the regular military (maybe I shouldn't call them veterans as there's no guarantee of that, but nonetheless they weren't trainees anymore) got simply overrun by the first melee betas.

Since I accept the existence of mecha in a mecha universe, my remaining problem is twofold: Don't try to make the enemies look stronger by making humans look stupid and ineffectual. Don't make n00b main characters look special by making real soldiers far too weak. Neither of these errors in the eps were by any means unavoidable.

That's certainly true for great many shows, but it's hardly a universal rule. More often than not it's simply a result of the fact the main characters tend to be young for the sake of the younger audiences. But even in something like Gundam 00 the sheer superiority of the machine and experience seemed to be more important than any other factor (aside from the main character status). My favourite character Ali showed that multiple times, not only in the beginning. He was an old man for action by anime standards, yet kicked more ass than pretty much anybody.

Remember that they weren't attacked back there by either laser class, nor the destroyer class - just the fast grunts surrounded them.

[Yukimura]

@Kraco You're right about Prince Ali, he was on a whole other level like Char Aznable or Zechs Marquise. Where I was focusing my attention was on front line soldiers who may show up for an ep or two but aren't major characters (e.g. the captain of Louise's squad in Gundam 00 S2 who got pixy dust pwned), those are the ones that my 'rule' most applies to. Season long nemeses have to follow different rules.

Anyway, after watching ep 2 I can see where you all were coming from a lot better. The BETA's tactics are rather brutal, but the way the Japanese are fighting back seems somewhat wasteful in manpower and equipment unless that's all the choice left to them, which is quite plausible.
Bringing the rain from off shore or artillery positions seems like the only viable way to stem the Beta's advance as they don't seem to get tired or slowed by the environment. Fighting them close up on the other hand seems like suicide because of their horrifying numerical advantage. However, if you split them into manageable groups and could avoid/take out the Lasers it seems like a given finite supply of BETA should be susceptible to the skillful application of the maneuverability and precision offered by a TSF (though TSF's could probably stand to pack a bigger punch). I think in the case of the first two eps Japan just got overwhelmed by sheer numbers and lack of terrain to fall back along while whittling away at the enemy with a scorched earth style artillery barrage.

The BETA have an advantage that makes the tactical capabilities of humanity pointless. They don't seem to be bound by remotely comparable resource limitations. I suspect that a Laser class can't run out of ammo, that a Destroyer class can run flat out and trample anything in it's path indefinitely longer than humans could spend time putting impediments in front of them, and that those scorpion things can rip things apart indefinitely longer than humans could put things in their midst to rip apart. All that is compounded by the fact that there are just way more BETA than human military people/machines.