So it's fairness in the sense that it isn't fair. Obviously, pushing someone's hand to accept a duel and killing them in their sleep is not an equitable or morally fair outcome for the victim. Come on.Originally Posted by Kraco
So it's fairness in the sense that it isn't fair. Obviously, pushing someone's hand to accept a duel and killing them in their sleep is not an equitable or morally fair outcome for the victim. Come on.
That's only a detail dictated by the game mechanics. It equals perfectly to simply catching somebody asleep and thus completely vulnerable and slitting their throat (which the game engine doesn't happen to allow for whatever reason). I fail to see how that's not fair. Surely it's every bit as fair as some high level mofo one-hit killing a lower level player in the wilds. There's nothing at all preventing players from taking precautions against sleep duels, like choosing a decent location for the nap or having somebody on guard when others sleep.
I don't know why it should be a great shock to anyone that bad things can happen to a sleeping person found by a villain. They at least believe they are inside a lethal game, so it would make more sense to doubt any gaming convention they learned from normal games.
Neither of these things are "fair". What world do you live in where killing someone in their sleep constitutes a fair fight.
It's fair in that the act is available to everybody.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
This isn't the definition of fair that I, the writers, or to be honest you would ever use. That's like saying shooting another player during a football game is a fair move because anyone can bring a gun into the stadium.
That's because shooting itself is against the law. Regardless of whether guns are available to everyone or not, the act of shooting someone without being provoked demands punishment.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
What world? Sword Art Online. You are forgetting we are talking about a game world where the emphasis is solely on fights. If you are thinking all fights need to be knightly one vs one melees in a clearing with a crowd cheering around, you are mistaken. That would be utterly unfair against the type who prefer more intelligence and subterfuge.
In our world, specifically our more or less peaceful countries, killing someone is most of the time unfair because you clearly aren't meant to kill anyone. The only fair kills would be the police (or self-defending gun owners) killing a totally out of control criminal shooting left and right endangering everybody.
Thanks for these two really stupid defenses of a bad line because, for some reason, you like this show so much the main character has to never make a mistake.
sleep-PK = Exploit
the question whether its "fair" or not should be irrelevant with this, its not working as intended, thus not one of the game designers given rules.
the question is whether you can call such a game "fair" at all, just like with most other rpg-games.
certain builds could be stronger than others in some areas, certainly not fair for the guy with the disadvantage in that moment, but he might shine elsewhere. so its "fair" again isn't it?
I couldn't follow Kirito when he was talking about items which are able to bypass town-security... sure thing it sounds unfair.. I give him that
the town IS suppossed to be a safe Haven, you arn't able to hit anyone there under normal circumstances (anyone playing MMOs would most likely think its not intended to hurt people in town, I agree with that myself), but why does he consider it "unfair" if there are *skills* or items which allow to bypass that security... after all - if its a skill, that guy has to spent points for that which he could use to increase his PvE-effectiveness or something like that AND (if there are no classes, which I'm not sure off so far) everyone has the possibility to set a point into that skill don't they?
and if its a special item, then it most likely dropped off some random monster, then again, everyone is able to farm that type of monster....
which brings me to another point, there is a loot-system and a level-system
the game has always moments where it is not "fair", a higher level could easily bash any lower level somewhere outside of town, that was shown in ep 4... (he even said that games like this are unfair, lulz)
and a "last hit"- loot bonus? certainly not fair at all if you consider that you can get that even though you did nothing during the first 99% of the fight
I wonder why they even care to explain so much shit
their episodes are limited and the only episode which showed some real fighting so far was EP2
I want them to go back to that.. they sure made a *HUGE* mistake by skipping so much stuff,
they should've gone slower.. maybe the episode themselves would show and proof most of the game rules then. and the most important part, people wouldn't care about minor contradictions.
but this is really weird, EP4 was like "I'LL SHOW YOU HOW UNFAIR GAMES LIKE THIS ARE, SO DON'T YOU DARE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT OR IT WILL HAPPEN TO YOU TOO!"
and then 1 ep later "This game is actually pretty much fair :3 "
not only that but, lets call it the reunion of Asuna and Kirito had nearly no impact on me.... and here I thought it's going to be a big thing when they meet again... some drama or some sort'
Last edited by KrayZ33; Thu, 08-09-2012 at 12:55 PM.
How do you know that? What is the point the game creator is trying to make with all this? Whatever it is, the people in believe they are fighting for their lives as much as people in a war torn country in RL. Maybe the creator never intended towns to be safe havens in the first place and that's simply what the players assumed because they tend to be in many MMOs and superficially they seemed to be in this one as well. But reality has now revealed them real gaps in that assumed safety. Now they know this deadly game has no utterly safe places whatsoever, which might very well be as intended by the creator.
because you need to accept it?How do you know that?
why such a pop-up-window in the first place otherwise?
thats 100% not the casewhich might very well be as intended by the creator.
I'll believe it if the first player-mage shows up and thats when I'll drop the show.
so random.
you could also say that the game designer deleted the log-out button, but if you turn 180° jump 2 times and run 3 steps backwards you'll log out, he just wants them to THINK that they can't log out!
but my guess is that a succesfull log out by turning 180° degrees, jumping 2 times and running 3 steps backwards is not intended too
Last edited by KrayZ33; Thu, 08-09-2012 at 02:03 PM.
So, the creator is evil enough to trap thousands of mostly young guys and gals into a game for months, dooming their physical bodies to life support and telling them they die also in RL should they die in the game, and you think he's so sweet a man he wouldn't purposefully leave a few holes in the game to make things even more "interesting"?
It sure is an exploit because it works in such a roundabout way, but it doesn't mean it wasn't left there on purpose for the crafty ones to find and use to terrorise the gullible. Also, we have so far no idea how the recent couple of people were killed, since they surely weren't in a duel. Maybe it's even more strange than force challenging a sleeping person, but nevertheless only time, if even it, will tell whether it's intentional or not. You are free to believe it's not, I'll stick to believing the creater is even more nefarious.
it doesn't make much sense imho
if he wants people to die and feel unsafe in towns too, he could've made it possible for players to fight and kill each other in towns too. why do it in such a roundabout way?
well, whatever next ep will show how it was done
Last edited by KrayZ33; Thu, 08-09-2012 at 02:29 PM.
Kirito was saying that MMOs with levelling are unfair in the way that you can build a character with stats to the point where your regeneration exceeds the damage you take from lower level guys. The "unfairness" refers to the fact that the lower levels have ZERO chances of winning if their damage output isn't high enough.
On the other hand, if stronger characters didn't have stats that allowed for such regeneration, lower levels would still have a hope/chance to eventually chip away the stronger opponent's HP to zero.
This is an "unfairness" inherent to the levelling system. Kirito said that the rules of SAO are essentially fair.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
and how is a SKILL or weapon that allows someone to bypass town security unfair?
unless it was given to him by the GM himself.
there is also no rule that prevents low level bashing...This is an "unfairness" inherent to the levelling system. Kirito said that the rules of SAO are essentially fair.
I think Kirito meant this:
SAO is fair in a way that the rules apply to everyone, there are no exceptions... this is why he can't believe that one guy is able to kill people in towns, while others have to duel someone to do it
Last edited by KrayZ33; Thu, 08-09-2012 at 11:08 PM.
I actually never really considered that skill/weapon thing unfair in the sense that it's not available to everyone. In that sense I agree (and even encourage) the idea that it's an obtainable skill and is completely alright to have.
One can argue that it's "unfair" in that it's giving people license to kill in a no-kill zone.., but that's not an argument I'm going to push.
I don't consider low-level bashing being something unfair to the extent that warrants a rule to prevent it.
[quote-Krayz33]I think Kirito meant this:
SAO is fair in a way that the rules apply to everyone, there are no exceptions... this is why he can't believe that one guy is able to kill people in towns, while others have to duel someone to do it[/quote]
While I more or less agree with this, examples like the Listening skill show that skills designed to overcome barriers aren't unheard of in the game.
Last edited by Buffalobiian; Thu, 08-09-2012 at 11:43 PM.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
This episode put me to sleep. I mean that quite seriously.
I couldn't help but think it was so averagely average that it was worthless.
Once they told us the trick, what is left is very low end average "love" anime drama and potential teen love story.
All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening. And then: Golf.
better than last ep imho
2 bad there was no PK in the end after all, especially when those freaks came up
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