Naruto Chapter 598

[b1gdawg]

It wouldn't be the first time Kishi ignored previously stated "facts" about the sharingan.


Plus, why would Izuna wear a mask to hide his identity? It would be rather anti-climatic to hide his identity for this long, only to reveal him and have nobody recognize him or know who he is.


Honestly, if you're not convinced by this point that it is Obito, then it's going to take seeing his face and having Kakashi say "...O..bi...to...!?" Because Kishi has done everything possible to let us know who he is, except for show his face at this point.

When was the first time Kishi ignored facts about the sharingan. I completely forgot about the going blind thing, but now that i heard it, im 100% sold that it's NOT obito. I wish i see ur reaction when u finally realize it isn't Obito. You would really need to stfu.


Tobi wears a mask to hide his identity obviously. People didn't know he had a sharingan because of the mask, and that mask helped him in his fight with Konan, she thought he only had 1 sharingan, but he used that 2nd sharingan that no1 knew about to save his life with Izanagi.


What other Uchiha actually needs Eyes? Either some1 going blind for over using their mangekyou, or some1 who lost both their eyes. Hmmmm, i wonder who that might be.

[Sidnne]

Tobi wears a mask to hide his identity obviously. People didn't know he had a sharingan because of the mask, and that mask helped him in his fight with Konan, she thought he only had 1 sharingan, but he used that 2nd sharingan that no1 knew about to save his life with Izanagi.

lol. Yes, I know he wears it to hide his identity. Thank you for that valuable tid-bit. I didn't ask why Tobi wears a mask, I asked why Izuna would have a need to hide his identity from people who don't know what he looks like anyway. And why the need for Kishi to hide the indentity from the readers and make a huge mystery (while dropping hints that it's Obito all along the way) for 5+ years, when the readers wouldn't know or care about Izuna either.

What other Uchiha actually needs Eyes? Either some1 going blind for over using their mangekyou, or some1 who lost both their eyes. Hmmmm, i wonder who that might be.

Sasuke from the future??!!


It is absolutely hilarious that you get so upset every time someone talks about Obito. You even result to name-calling and direct insults over it. Too funny.

[UChessmaster]

When was the first time Kishi ignored facts about the sharingan. I completely forgot about the going blind thing, but now that i heard it, im 100% sold that it's NOT obito. I wish i see ur reaction when u finally realize it isn't Obito. You would really need to stfu.

I adressed this like 8 seconds ago :/

I love it how you shrug off any evidence for Obito as circunstancial but when the slightest (fake) hint at not Obito comes out you start handing out invitations to your "Obito is not Tobi!" party inmediately. It has been asked already and you haven`t answered at all, but just for fun i`ll ask again, what is your problem with Tobi being Obito? Did you bet your soul on it? Do you know Kishimoto? Are you actually Obito?

[UChessmaster]

How the hell is Tobi going to be identified after taking a Super Kyuubi level 10 Sage mode Rasengan to the face?

That`s going to be the punchline, it`s going to leave such a scar that no one will i.d him.

[quote=DB_HunterIt can't be Rin, as the frequency of Kamui's use by Tobi suggests only a natural Uchiha body could withstand it. I'm still not giving up on it being Izuna; he could be just trolling Kakashi to win the fight. Besides if it does turn out to be Obito it would plot hole the timelines vis a vis fight with Minato etc.[/quote]

How can Izuna know things only Kakashi and Obito know? it wouldn`t be a plot hole, he had a mask back then...

Also, the amount of times he has used Kamui means he should have gone blind by now if all he has was normal MS, like Itachi, Kakashi, pre-transplant Sasuke/Madara. The fact he can still use his eye must mean it is an EMS, which follows that it isn't Tobi's natural eye but rather a transplant.

He`s using Hashirama`s cell to regenerate.

Thirdly, the fact that Kurama thinks that Tobi is Madara must mean either Tobi posseses Madara's chakra or his own is almost indistinguishable from Madara's. The former could mean it is Obito through some trick, whilst the latter could point to Izuna.

Kurama never saw Tobi`s face, he just took tobi`s word that he`s madara.

Yeah Obito being a teenager is a problem. It doesn't make sense he would obtain a jump in abilities from being a nobody in to ninja to rival a Hokage.

He`s only used one technique vs the 4th, his phasing ability, which is overpowered as hell. He was a nobody back then, a nobody with an overpowered ability.

Apart from all this the reason I'm not conviced it is Obito is because it sounds too straightforward. I know people for ages speculated about Minato being Naruto's dad and it turned out to be true, but we are approaching the end of the manga now and it would be more dramatic a twist for everyone to be led down one path and then being wrong footed to the very end.

Absolutelly any and all evidence shown so far has pointed at Obito, the only way for Tobi to be anyone else would be Kishi wanting to troll.

[DB_Hunter]

Yeah Obito being a teenager is a problem. It doesn't make sense he would obtain a jump in abilities from being a nobody in to ninja to rival a Hokage. Even Sasuke, a genius from the start, has taken time to get to where he is without having one of his eyes gone and part of his body crushed.

Kurama spoke about Sasuke's chakra being more sinister than his own, like Madara's was. Yet in the case of Tobi he doesn't imply Tobi is like Madara but that he IS Madara.

Izuna wearing a helmet? Well to hide his identity for some stupid Uchiha clan related reason. Not to mess up the legend of the two powerful brothers. How would the political aims of Madara be served (to get the Uchiha to revolt) if they knew his brother in cahoots with him was going arond stealing eyes?

Apart from all this the reason I'm not conviced it is Obito is because it sounds too straightforward. I know people for ages speculated about Minato being Naruto's dad and it turned out to be true, but we are approaching the end of the manga now and it would be more dramatic a twist for everyone to be led down one path and then being wrong footed to the very end. I'm not completely ruling out Obito, as we are all just speculating, but I think it would serve the series better for it to be Izuna. Plus that may explain why Madara is aware of Tobi. Additionally, it would serve a greater purpose for Madara to remain present in the story fighting the Kages than to just be the big bad villain no one can seemingly beat.

[Sidnne]

Yeah Obito being a teenager is a problem. It doesn't make sense he would obtain a jump in abilities from being a nobody in to ninja to rival a Hokage. Even Sasuke, a genius from the start, has taken time to get to where he is without having one of his eyes gone and part of his body crushed.

He didn't even use any abilities aside from Kamui against Minato. It's not like he was super powerful, he was just able to avoid being hit for a while. Until Minato figured out his ability and kicked his ass.

Kurama spoke about Sasuke's chakra being more sinister than his own, like Madara's was. Yet in the case of Tobi he doesn't imply Tobi is like Madara but that he IS Madara.

That has nothing to do with Chakra. He thought that Tobi was Madara, only because Tobi called himself Madara, or at least allowed Minato to assume he could have been Madara.

Actually, come to think of it. Has Kurama ever actually referred to Tobi at all? We know he mentions Madara a few times, but how do we know he isn't talking about the real Madara each time?

[Carnage]

Maybe Tobi doesn't age when he's in the alternate dimension?

[DB_Hunter]

Why would Izuna wear a mask? Why would Obito wear a mask? Why would anyone wear a mask? They could all just out themselves and fight, I guess it's what ninja's do.

Kurama is always going on about chakra, not just by who people are. Besides, Tobi has shown regenerative abilities not just the use of Kamui. Pretty advanced stuff for a teenager on his own. Plus he knew how to get around the barrier protecting Konoha, something which must be in addition to having use of space-time justu as Minato commented on this despite knowing the nature of Tobi's phasing ability. He also knew a hell of a lot of stuff about the best time to get Kurama out of Kushina. All this can't have been done in the space of a few years, which is what makes it look suspicious or plot hole-ish.

[UChessmaster]

Why would Izuna wear a mask? Why would Obito wear a mask? Why would anyone wear a mask? They could all just out themselves and fight, I guess it's what ninja's do.

If i had a boulder crushing scar, i`d wear a mask.

Besides, Tobi has shown regenerative abilities not just the use of Kamui. Pretty advanced stuff for a teenager on his own.

Hashirama`s cells...

Plus he knew how to get around the barrier protecting Konoha, something which must be in addition to having use of space-time justu as Minato commented on this despite knowing the nature of Tobi's phasing ability.

He also has the ability to teleport, he teleported there.

He also knew a hell of a lot of stuff about the best time to get Kurama out of Kushina. All this can't have been done in the space of a few years, which is what makes it look suspicious or plot hole-ish.

The Uchiha clan has some strong tailed beast taiming powers, i`m sure that for an Uchiha, such knowledge is not that huge of a deal.

Tobi wears a mask to hide his identity obviously. People didn't know he had a sharingan because of the mask, and that mask helped him in his fight with Konan, she thought he only had 1 sharingan, but he used that 2nd sharingan that no1 knew about to save his life with Izanagi.

Tobi never had a second sharingan.

[DB_Hunter]

If i had a boulder crushing scar, i`d wear a mask.

Only that when we see his face when it is revealed in front of Sasuke and Konan there is no scar.

Hashirama`s cells...

OK so we add grave robbing, DNA extracting and biological mutations to this teenager's already impressive array of skills

He also has the ability to teleport, he teleported there.

Minato knew that yet he still commented on it, meaning like I said before it must require additional knowledge to get past the barrier not just teleporting.

The Uchiha clan has some strong tailed beast taiming powers, i`m sure that for an Uchiha, such knowledge is not that huge of a deal.

That may be, but it must hardly be bed time stories that are told to all the little Uchiha kids that everyone knows about them. Hypnosis to control Kurama is one thing, knowing about the seal's details is another.

[UChessmaster]

Only that when we see his face when it is revealed in front of Sasuke and Konan there is no scar.

There are scars on his face...

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...f_his_mask.JPG

OK so we add grave robbing, DNA extracting and biological mutations to this teenager's already impressive array of skills

Grave robbing isn`t a skill, what impressive array? his sharingan techniques and his sharingan techniques? getting someone else`s techniques isn`t hard, he already transplanted his own techniques to Kakashi.

Minato knew that yet he still commented on it, meaning like I said before it must require additional knowledge to get past the barrier not just teleporting.

Minato didn`t know the exact way his technique works, he just took an educated guess. The whole point of that scene was to point out that Tobi wasn`t some random guy, not to say "Hey guys! this guy is too good, he can`t be Obito!". That said i admit he has a lot of knowledge, but that`s more of an unexplained plot and less of a plot-hole.

That may be, but it must hardly be bed time stories that are told to all the little Uchiha kids that everyone knows about them. Hypnosis to control Kurama is one thing, knowing about the seal's details is another.

Sasuke managed to cancel out the Kyuubi that one time with zero Uchiha training.

[DB_Hunter]

There are scars on his face...

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...f_his_mask.JPG

Those seem more like old man wrinkles than scars

Grave robbing isn`t a skill, what impressive array? his sharingan techniques and his sharingan techniques? getting someone else`s techniques isn`t hard, he already transplanted his own techniques to Kakashi.

It is a skill when it comes down to find the body of a long dead legendary ninja who, after being presumably pillaged by Orochimaru and who knows else, would have had his grave guarded or body moved to a secret location by Konoha to prevent further such actions. His array of techniques include his MS, his regeneration, his knowledge of seals, ability to extract a bijuu. That from what we have seen only, which we could assume isn't everything. Kakashi is a ninja of a thousand techniques but how many have we seen him use? What we see isn't necessarily all that a person has.

Minato didn`t know the exact way his technique works, he just took an educated guess.

Exactly. Even though he was right, lets disregard that for now. As far as Minato knew that was his best hunch, and despite thinking it was space-time jutsu he mentioned the ability to get past the barrier as something additional.

Sasuke managed to cancel out the Kyuubi that one time with zero Uchiha training.

I already mentioned hypnosis as being seperate from being able to deal in bijuu seals.

I'd just like to note that Tobi derisively refers to Kakashi's Kamui as a borrowed power. If the person behind the mask is anyone except Obito Uchiha, this remark makes no sense, because he has Obito's eyes and is thus also using a borrowed power.

It could be said by Izuna (if that is who Tobi is) in the context of an Uchiha speaking to a non-Uchiha.

[b1gdawg]

Tobi never had a second sharingan.

really? howd he use Izanagi then? he has a wall full of sharingans, u can see that when hes looking over Danzo's dead body.

[Sidnne]

really? howd he use Izanagi then? he has a wall full of sharingans, u can see that when hes looking over Danzo's dead body.

We covered this already. You would have known that had you read the entire thread and not jumped at the first opportunity to argue with someone. But, thanks anyway.

[b1gdawg]

But, thanks anyway.

ur welcome

[Y]

I'd just like to note that Tobi derisively refers to Kakashi's Kamui as a borrowed power. If the person behind the mask is anyone except Obito Uchiha, this remark makes no sense, because he has Obito's eye and is thus also using a borrowed power.

[Sidnne]

DB, you're just reaching now. All the evidence points to Obito, you're just trying to come up with any reason imaginable to suggest otherwise.

[DB_Hunter]

I am trying, but I'm doing so without saying it can't be Obito. It may well be. I guess I'm playing devil's advocate to test the validity of the Obito theory. Of course the easiest explanation of this could be just to say it is Obito, but I still hold on to the idea it would be a more entertaining story if it turns out to be Izuna as then you could take it to the level of the Madara/Izuna pairing and how they lived vs the Itachi/Sasuke pairing and their interactions. Plus throw in a bit of politics and philosophy on how to deal with conflict, loyalty and philosophy and you have a more mature storyline than just some bitter sod who just went emo and wants to play out his fantasy on everyone.

Plus I haven't debated properly on these forums for years, and in a while I may not get the time to do any of that again.

[Y]

Anything sounds better when you try to dress one side up and mock the other one. Izuna Uchiha is a non-character with zero lines of dialogue in the entire series and a reveal of him would turn the entire proceedings into another generic Uchiha brother wankfest, while Obito's bonds of friendship slowly turning into bitter mistrust and hatred reflects the Naruto/Sasuke relationship.

[FireEmblem]

If it's Obito, then he's an even bigger b*tch than Sasuke has been. Sasuke looks like Gandhi compared to Tobito.