Attack on Titan: Shingeki no Kyojin

[Pandadice]

wow, awesome post man, thanks. You've given me a lot to think about.

You should learn to watch and appreciate something (even if it contradicts your morals) without being too affected by it.

The themes in this show are logical to the world and story it is trying to build. If you criticize it for that, it is not the show's fault as a narrative. It is just you rejecting a story because it does not coincide with your morals. That is perfectly fine though.

For example, despite being agnostic, I can watch/read stories about faith and religion and actually enjoy, even feel touched by them.

I can, and do, watch plenty of things I don't agree with. Honestly, I take a fairly malleable "ironist" approach to my own moral worldview. Literature and movies/tv (including SnK) are one such place to find moral redescriptions or critiques or alternative views. However, when encountering such moral worldviews, I try not to outright accept or reject anything "i just don't agree with," but rather I try to critique it and make an assessment. I mean, at some point it's really about a certain inward resonance. And when watching a show and running into a lot of dissonance, and I constantly relate what is being presented to other negatively viewed experiences or ideas, then it just becomes uncomfortable to keep listening to the show. I guess on some level I do have trouble sitting through stuff I disagree with, but I think your agnostic/faith example is different from what I'm trying to say here. I did sit through 13 episodes after all, so it's not like I immediately shut the thing out. But it just got to the point where disagreeable worldviews were draining out the enjoyment.

Like I said in my first post, the whole thing is like one giant oozing existential crisis. That stuff can be cool sometimes. Maybe I'm just not getting into the fantasy appropriately, and am having trouble relating to whats happening. I dunno. I just want my angst-filled teens to be separate and put off to the side.

Also, lelouch might have said it in the wrong way, but he makes a valid point in recommending anime targeted for younger audiences because those generally contain morals that are probably more in line with what you are looking for. Anime targeted for more mature viewers generally have really questionable morals and themes. That does not mean they are pushing it or trying to influence the viewers though. If anything, I think SnK is trying to show the viewers the negative side of humanity in crisis to allow us to criticize the society they built, not to glorify it. If you read through this thread, most of the posts are complaints about the characters (except Mikasa, you are the first on that one, and made me write this post) and the government.

Like I said, I'm not about only seeking out things I agree with beforehand. Worldview pretty malleable. Those other "mature" shows with questionable morals and themes are usually totally open to my viewing/critiquing, but again, it's all about the assessment of what's being portrayed. It's not just about "questionable" as in it questions some really conservative worldview or something, but it's about the inward resonance and ability to withstand scrutiny (or even really just what the upshot of such scrutiny is--"withstand" isn't really what I mean, but it's more about examining them and seeing where such an examination goes).

But you also seem to be saying what Kraco said, which puts the show in a new light for me. The idea that the show is supposed to be viewed negatively I think is a really cool way to approach it. So we're more watching Orwell's 1984 rather than some army ad glorifying the awesomeness of violence. Redescribed this way, I might actually finish out the series.

About your comment about liking or disliking the characters, it is quite possible to like aspects of a character and dislike others. For example, I hate how Eren is way too hot headed and arrogant, and how he treats Mikasa, but I also like his tenacity and concern for his friends. His desire for vengeance is understandable, but I am not too fond of it either since there is no future for him there, and his target is too vague an existence. Basically what I am saying is, just because you like a character or feel inspired by him/her does not mean that you have to be like him/her in every way. Also, just because you hate a character does not make everything about him/her crap.

Yeah, I really don't like Eren, and you basically nailed down way. But I will agree that it is better to look at the characters with more complexity rather than trying to write them off on oversimplifications. (But still, I do have a problem with Mikasa's psychopathy).

There are also points in the story that show really positive human qualities. You seem to be picking out the worst aspects of humanity depicted while ignoring the positive ones, like self sacrifice, love, and hope.

wait, were such things present in the first 13 episodes? I mean, many of my complaints could be redescribed to fit such terms, as they're all malleable and subjective concepts. But yeah, I'm probably oversimplifying and emphasizing the negative at the expense of the good (the existentialism really does drain everything else out imo )