That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime: Tensei shitara Slime datta Ken

[Ryllharu]

Most people are being given an instant, painless death from Megiddo. So there is a clear contrast to the deaths of the assholes that were maintaining the two magic fields, the Otherworlders, and the general army.

Benimaru killed them all with fire, sliced them and burned them alive as they were still dying, the dragonewts did too, with plenty of stabbing in between. The female dragonewts ninja-wired them painfully to death, and the last team just viciously cut them all down.

We can assume, as Geld inferred, that the last guy (now dead and possessed by the wizard) will die significantly more painful deaths. Especially regenerators. Geld was just beating on the guy, then letting him heal for a few seconds. But what if he healed up in pretzel shape? The asshole Cavalry leader with the wizard will also die painfully, I'm sure, since the former is the one who directly killed Shion and was openly attacking children, and the wizard's nefarious trap magics were just witnessed by Geld and Hakuoro. Both of those two are part of some shitty evil plan to harvest Otherworlder's skills (which is some shady-as-fuck shit, and drastically more evil than what Rimuru's folks are up to).

I think MFauli has it all wrong. The wizard and the cavalry guy are the "comically evil" badguys. They summon and harvest children from other worlds to take their unique skills.

As for Rimuru, he's killing most with a merciful, single, swift strike. The first few thousand died without really having any idea what's going on at all. After the first 5,000, the remaining ones are only now starting to realize that people are dying around them. But even they are dead before it fully registers.

There's 15,000 to go. We haven't even seen the rest of the slaughter yet.

Worth noting that Rimuru cast an anti-magic shield, and is inside it casting Megiddo. They've hinted visually at what it really is.

[MFauli]

All I will add is: None of you should ever be giving orders to an army ;/

[Munsu]

All I will add is: None of you should ever be giving orders to an army ;/

They'll probably do some weak explanation later on how NOW there will be peace with humans, but realistically, you cannot go back from such a cruel massacre.

Incidentally, the ones being killed NOW committed a cruel massacre themselves as you put it... It would be nice if you would sit back for a few minutes and reflect on how REAL history has developed and how war and peace have come along between nations. And you should stop grouping all human nations into the same bucket, it'll make it easier to understand how peace with humans can occur without some "weak" explanation.

[DarthEnderX]

All I will add is: None of you should ever be giving orders to an army ;/

No anime fan should ever have any authority ever...

[Kraco]

All I will add is: None of you should ever be giving orders to an army ;/

Don't worry, I'd never command a whole army. I am, however, a reservist NCO. No offence, but a person without a military training isn't really suited to criticise those with in RL military matters, unless it's something ridiculously bad.

For what it's worth, military training in your back pocket typically only makes anime looks stupider. It's exactly the same as with any other expertise, 90% of time, or more. You enjoy the average shows a whole lot more if you don't know much about the theme in RL. If you do, you'll spot mistakes, gross simplifications, and all that stuff nonstop. But then again, that's why they say to turn off your brain when watching fictional TV shows.

[Buffalobiian]

All I will add is: None of you should ever be giving orders to an army ;/

"You are making less and less sense." -some Orc Lord

[shinta|hikari]

Just fight it out with your fists like real men!

[neflight86]

So I had another disconnect with what this show is trying to go for tonally this episode...

One of the first things Rimuru said as he floated over the enemy camp was "these are the ones who killed Shion"... Well, unless your autopsy produced about 10,000+ stab wounds, only one or two soldiers actually killed her I would argue. Assuming he meant they are responsible for her death, I would suggest that their command structure shoulders a much larger portion of the blame in calling the attack. Normally simple semantics, but Rimuru is uniquely qualified to single out the actual responsible decision makers that have caused this destruction short of killing anybody that wears the banner, but he chose essentially genocide against an opponent that could not resist him. I understand that this show has been building to this conflict as a set piece, but so far Slime Isekai has, through diplomatic maneuvering, shown that those with reason can be... reasoned with, or at least worth the effort to try.

He then says "there is no need for forgiveness" before beginning his spell. I hope he is more trying to convince himself than actually believing that- he just said last episode that the deaths were due to his own incompetency, as his followers fell over themselves to council him that he is not in the wrong at all. He seems to have internalized it somewhat, so why not show some of that same compassion to the hapless attackers who would have already been killed by the monster kingdom if they were not under orders to do no harm? Because Rimuru needs to kill a large portion of people to become a demon lord and maybe resurrect some side characters; that's why.

The difference in aggression, I suppose, is that the nation of Falmuth(sp?) was expecting a war (with casualties) to preserve their economic interests- not very defensible morally except maybe to its mercantile class. Rimuru, on the other hand, was expecting a slaughter out of reclamation of territory, potential resurrection of allies, and likely some resentment, though I can't know beyond his words how he personally feels. It looks more noble due to the circumstances, but It doesn't feel so when the 'cool one-sided anime fights' are against opponents I have reason to believe can't all be complicit. It is not catharsis but sympathy I feel, and it didn't have to be this way. He could have held a quorum where the kingdom outright denied his (the monster's) claim to life, and there would have been a proper setup for retaliation, I feel. Without stately interactions these events feel like just a means to the end of 'kicking the bad guys out'. I know I'm asking too much from a two-cour anime season of a light novel adaptation, but the details like showing how the solders are all silently 'headshot' by floating water particles felt more like the opening strike from, ironically, a monster invasion. This is still entertaining, even the conflict itself, it's just that the world building has suffered a bit, is all, or Rimuru is really letting the power he possesses corrupt his perspective.

The Otherworlders didn't last very long in a real fight- I forgot that even among them, Rimuru is an anomaly in power. He really did catch all of the breaks, huh?

I don't mean to be dour; I'm engaged more now than any time earlier this season and I hope the storytelling gets back to being a bit more thoughtful.

[Kraco]

I don't mean to be dour; I'm engaged more now than any time earlier this season and I hope the storytelling gets back to being a bit more thoughtful.

If Falmuth hadn't attacked, Rimuru City denizens wouldn't have died. Rimuru would have had no need to gather 10,000 human souls to become a demon lord in order to resurrect his people. It's as simple as that. It all began with Falmuth and it will all end with Falmuth. I can't say the scene of thousands of soldiers dying like that would have been glorious or anything, but since it was a direct consequence of the invading forces' own actions, I don't view it as unjust.

[MFauli]

So I had another disconnect with what this show is trying to go for tonally this episode...

One of the first things Rimuru said as he floated over the enemy camp was "these are the ones who killed Shion"... Well, unless your autopsy produced about 10,000+ stab wounds, only one or two soldiers actually killed her I would argue. Assuming he meant they are responsible for her death, I would suggest that their command structure shoulders a much larger portion of the blame in calling the attack. Normally simple semantics, but Rimuru is uniquely qualified to single out the actual responsible decision makers that have caused this destruction short of killing anybody that wears the banner, but he chose essentially genocide against an opponent that could not resist him. I understand that this show has been building to this conflict as a set piece, but so far Slime Isekai has, through diplomatic maneuvering, shown that those with reason can be... reasoned with, or at least worth the effort to try.

He then says "there is no need for forgiveness" before beginning his spell. I hope he is more trying to convince himself than actually believing that- he just said last episode that the deaths were due to his own incompetency, as his followers fell over themselves to council him that he is not in the wrong at all. He seems to have internalized it somewhat, so why not show some of that same compassion to the hapless attackers who would have already been killed by the monster kingdom if they were not under orders to do no harm? Because Rimuru needs to kill a large portion of people to become a demon lord and maybe resurrect some side characters; that's why.

The difference in aggression, I suppose, is that the nation of Falmuth(sp?) was expecting a war (with casualties) to preserve their economic interests- not very defensible morally except maybe to its mercantile class. Rimuru, on the other hand, was expecting a slaughter out of reclamation of territory, potential resurrection of allies, and likely some resentment, though I can't know beyond his words how he personally feels. It looks more noble due to the circumstances, but It doesn't feel so when the 'cool one-sided anime fights' are against opponents I have no reason to believe can't all be complicit. It is not catharsis but sympathy I feel, and it didn't have to be this way. He could have held a quorum where the kingdom outright denied his (the monster's) claim to life, and there would have been a proper setup for retaliation, I feel. Without stately interactions these events feel like just a means to the end of 'kicking the bad guys out'. I know I'm asking too much from a two-cour anime season of a light novel adaptation, but the details like showing how the solders are all silently 'headshot' by floating water particles felt more like the opening strike from, ironically, a monster invasion. This is still entertaining, even the conflict itself, it's just that the world building has suffered a bit, is all, or Rimuru is really letting the power he possesses corrupt his perspective.

The Otherworlders didn't last very long in a real fight- I forgot that even among them, Rimuru is an anomaly in power. He really did catch all of the breaks, huh?

I don't mean to be dour; I'm engaged more now than any time earlier this season and I hope the storytelling gets back to being a bit more thoughtful.

Basically what I said, so yeah, fully agreed.

[DarthEnderX]

I hope he is more trying to convince himself than actually believing that- he just said last episode that the deaths were due to his own incompetency, as his followers fell over themselves to council him that he is not in the wrong at all.

I mean, he's not. That's a real common thing in fiction that, when someone does something evil, the ones that didn't prevent it blame themselves. And, frankly, it's a bullshit trope.

You aren't responsible for the actions of others. At least, not when you have no authority over them. Everyone is responsible for their own actions.

It's one of those ideas that would make Batman the most evil man ever for not killing the Joker. But even then, Batman KNOWS Joker is gonna escape and kill more people. Rimuru didn't know any of this would happen.

The Otherworlders didn't last very long in a real fight- I forgot that even among them, Rimuru is an anomaly in power. He really did catch all of the breaks, huh?

I mean, his power is Mega Maning people. It's as strong as the combined powers of everyone he can kill.

[neflight86]

I mean, he's not. That's a real common thing in fiction that, when someone does something evil, the ones that didn't prevent it blame themselves. And, frankly, it's a bullshit trope.

You aren't responsible for the actions of others. At least, not when you have no authority over them. Everyone is responsible for their own actions.

It's one of those ideas that would make Batman the most evil man ever for not killing the Joker. But even then, Batman KNOWS Joker is gonna escape and kill more people. Rimuru didn't know any of this would happen.

While self-blame is a dangerous slippery slope, I think his political non-action has at least some blame in the attack. A Japanese (business) person, of all people, I would expect to be especially sensitive to 'reading the atmosphere' and understanding that 'rocking the boat' will invite ire. He was told as much by the Dwarven King and his merchant pal episodes ago.

As far as being not accepting responsibility for the actions of others, doesn't that undermine the entire idea of retaliation, or at least the beneficial caution its threat brings? Even though (I agree) you aren't ultimately responsible for other's actions, you can to some degree predict and steer them... or at least you should attempt to when your decision making may lead to nation affecting issues and their further escalations.

It's as strong as the combined powers of everyone he can kill.

Kill, or happen to befriend in the first episode...

[Ryllharu]

While self-blame is a dangerous slippery slope, I think his political non-action has at least some blame in the attack. A Japanese (business) person, of all people, I would expect to be especially sensitive to 'reading the atmosphere' and understanding that 'rocking the boat' will invite ire. He was told as much by the Dwarven King and his merchant pal episodes ago.

I would also remind you that the Dwarven King strongly reminded Rimuru that he is a king, and needs to act as one, with all the burdens that come with it. Or that by being so casual and laid back, he is doing a disservice to his people. The visit to a nation that he already gets along with so well ended well enough, so he shrugged it off that what he had been doing to date was working out okay so far, so, maybe he doesn't need to change.

He got along fine with Blumund, who advocate for avoiding war (but that's because they're so small they know that Tempest would destroy them instantly...so there's that).

Rimuru has since realized, and admitted to his closest allies, that his sentimentality about being human before, and from a peaceful nation like Japan, blinded him to the reality that not all humans are inherently good, civil, or deal with things diplomatically.

This is his arc to finally becoming a king, though as a demon lord. The reason why he needed to change were telegraphed from the start of this season.

As far as being not accepting responsibility for the actions of others, doesn't that undermine the entire idea of retaliation, or at least the beneficial caution its threat brings? Even though (I agree) you aren't ultimately responsible for other's actions, you can to some degree predict and steer them... or at least you should attempt to when your decision making may lead to nation affecting issues and their further escalations.

I'd argue that Rimuru rescinding his edict to never harm humans under any circumstances means he's reconciling his responsibility to his people. He's peaceful with other nations, obviously favoring trade. But he's now going to prove that attacking Tempest is a very poor idea.

He wants Youm to become the king, make a puppet state, and immediately resume trade with them instead. He's doing swift, brutal action, then returning to the status quo of happy, peaceful relations.

Though he's probably going to go after Clayman for continually provoking him.

[DarthEnderX]

While self-blame is a dangerous slippery slope, I think his political non-action has at least some blame in the attack.

I don't. That's pure victim-blaming.

[MFauli]

I don't. That's pure victim-blaming.

RIMURU IS THE VICTIM!!!11

rofl

[Kraco]

Even though (I agree) you aren't ultimately responsible for other's actions, you can to some degree predict and steer them... or at least you should attempt to when your decision making may lead to nation affecting issues and their further escalations.

That's precisely what he's doing: Destroying the whole invading army will send a message nobody can ignore. The threshold of attacking Jura Tempest Federation (or whatever the official name was, I can never remember it) will be considerably higher for anyone. It's exactly how it works in RL as well. When a country is known to possess military might, expansionist countries will think twice before invading, as it might not be worth it. If a country is chaotic and poorly defended, a neighbour will be attracted to attack, just like Russia targeted Ukraine.

I'm pretty sure Machiavelli wrote that a ruler must be able to show ruthlessness, even though ruthlessness and cruelty aren't good ways to rule. They can be necessary, however, since for some other rulers they may be the only understandable language.

[KrayZ33]

Rimuru is a nuke.
A nuke just doesn't care.

Every nation in this fantasy world seems to have a nuke, if they don't have one, then the whole political landscape makes no sense.
It shouldn't be possibly for any country without a nuke to exist.
Armies are pointless in combat and only good to supress recently nuked territories.

Rimuru is currently showing the world that they too have a nuke.
He doesn't have a moral high ground and it's actually possible to prevent the attack without having to kill everyone - but it wouldn't send the same message.
He is sacrificing the lives of thousands to make a point. That's evil for sure, so lets not be fooled.
You can argue that this will even more in the future as it will prevent conflicts to arise again.

He's basically America attacking/nuking North Korea (without allies) to show China that they shouldn't mess with him.

[Ryllharu]

Rimuru is a nuke.

Sir? I believe you have your isekais mixed up.

[Buffalobiian]

He's basically America attacking/nuking North Korea (without allies) to show China that they shouldn't mess with him.

Nuance matters.

Rimuru is nuking the 20k armed forces that are marching to annihilate his state.

Just slightly different to colony dropping on a civilian city or Hiroshima.

Ryll pointed out something before about anti-magic and Rimuru being inside. Well if that's the case then those water droplets are really just Rimuru's body dancing around piercing people.

[KrayZ33]

Nuance matters.

Rimuru is nuking the 20k armed forces that are marching to annihilate his state.

Just slightly different to colony dropping on a civilian city or Hiroshima.

Sure, it's different.
The thing is, Rimuru is making an example, he could probably have solved the whole thing in a different way but he doesn't want to, nor does he actually care.
That's the deal about what makes him evil in this situation and morally liable.

"It can't be helped I guess" *proceeds to slaughter the army of 20k in seconds*

No, he is wrong, it can be helped. It's just easier to get what he wants with this.
You might even say that he is happy about it. In the end, he gets a chance to revive his people this way. He doesn't care about the fact that he basically lost all the "lets avoid fighting"-reasoning he had before this event.

The army marching on his nation is obviously not a threat when he can just delete it like that.
It's a joke.
In our world this is the equivalent of some nation sending a single soldier to declare war and the war is lost for the attacking nation as soon as that single soldier has been shot.

Is it that nations own fault? Hell yeah. Could Rimuru have done things differently? Fucking hell yeah too. I just don't want this to be viewed as an act of last resort or some bullshit like that, because it truely wasn't and isn't.
He could've found different ways, and he could've stopped that army in a different way and probably didn't have to kill them. He is basically a god and he tries to make it clear that no one should fuck with him or his nation by killing thousands. That's not benevolent - that's all.