That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime: Tensei shitara Slime datta Ken

[DarthEnderX]

NOTHING was justified, wtf. Did you remember how Rimuru murdered 100k soldiers, not for defense, but because he needed them to resurrect his friends?!

It was ABSOLUTELY for defense! Those soldier were ACTIVLY marching on his city with the EXPRESS goal of murdering EVERYONE.

The fact that their deaths would revive his friends was just a bonus. Which was ALSO justified, because they're the ones that KILLED THOSE FRIENDS IN THE FIRST PLACE! They are straight up being made to pay the cost to undo the damage THEY CAUSED!

nor the gruesome treatment of the humans in the waggon

They got off LUCKY. They were the worst offenders and got off with the lightest punishment.

And if I were Rimuru, I'd question whether it's alright that everyone always kneels and bows their heads when he walks by. Not exactly healthy behavior unless you're a dictator who gets off on power.

He's tried repeatedly to get them to stop. It never works.

Does anyone ever oppose Rimuru and Rimuru is forced to realize that he's in the wrong?

He's done nothing wrong.

Although he's probably giving Diablo too much free reign to operate without oversite.

[Kraco]

Tbh as I'm typing this, I'm wondering how humans even survived this long, considering there's not a single human so far that could keep up with the demon lords we saw. Rimuru is one of them and it shows.

Because the demon lords are no more monsters than the human leaders we have been seeing. There's no such confrontation going on as you are proposing.

You might as well ask how on Earth can Germany and France both keep existing right next to each other, after they have fought so many bloody wars. Shouldn't one of them be permanently destroyed already?

I'm not saying I disagree with what Rimuru did, but it is not typically what a just hero would do.

He's not a just hero, though. He's the leader of a nation. A just hero would be a lousy leader, only marginally better than a tyrant. Of course in a paradise a just hero might be an excellent leader, but clearly the world of this series is anything but a paradise. So, Rimuru foremost must look after his own nation. How to treat other nations depends on how they act toward Jura. Friendly nations benefit Jura, so they are worth treating fairly, but hostile nations must be kept in check. If a verifiably hostile nation can be turned into a friendly one by extremely unscrupulous tampering with their internal politics, like Diablo is now doing under orders from Rimuru, then that's what Rimuru should do, if he can do it without risking the general situation becoming worse than it was. It's not an act befitting a just hero, obviously.

[shinta|hikari]

Humans survived because the demon lords have no reason to cull them.

Then they attacked Tempest...

[shinta|hikari]

I mean, mass murdering your enemies when you have the power to not do so is morally wrong in many different perspectives and ideologies.

I'm not saying I disagree with what Rimuru did, but it is not typically what a just hero would do.

[DarthEnderX]

I mean, mass murdering your enemies when you have the power to not do so is morally wrong in many different perspectives and ideologies.

Under normal circumstances, I'd agree with that.

But in this instance, killing those people literally undoes the deaths THEY were responsible for. It's less about murdering his enemies than it is about UNmurdering his people.


Normally, one of the main arguments against vengeance is "There's no point to it, it's not going to bring them back." But in this case, it would LITERALLY bring them back.

It basically becomes a trolly problem. Is it okay to kill a hundred murderers to save one innocent person? How many Nazis are you willing to kill to undo the holocaust? And so on.

He's still Rimuru's servant, though. That being said, every time I see his face, I can't help but feel he would, in fact, love to betray Rimuru at some point.

I don't think that's true. Given that he seems to get genuinely furious any time anyone badmouths Rimuru.

[Buffalobiian]

I'm not saying I disagree with what Rimuru did, but it is not typically what a just hero would do.

"What would Himmel do?"

[MFauli]

We had this debate when the last season aired, it's probably only a couple pages back, lol, so I don't feel like we need to repeat everything. My issue has always been, and still is, how Rimuru just appears at the resting soldiers' place, and insta-murders all of them. And while he does, he specifically cares about there being at least 100k, so he can revive his friends. This wasn't a defensive measure, and no, it's not just to murder soldiers who killed your friends in an ongoing war, these soldiers carried out orders. The just thing to do would have been for Rimuru to kill the leaders of the army, and then anyone that still opposed him.

I have zero sympathy for Russia atm, but would you guys think it'd be just if some just snipped their fingers and ALL of Russia's soldiers dropped dead? That's not how war works. You fight, until one side retreats. Genocide is not the way of any regular war, that's an extra step in the direction of "fucked up". And Rimuru took that extra step. He's evil. "B-but he revived his friends who were killed by those soldiers!!1" - they died in battle with an enemy army, they weren't killed by evil people, and certainly not every soldier in the army was happy with what happened. But Rimuru made no distinction here (or the author took the easy route and wanted us to believe that all those soldiers were scumbags).

And just for the record: Rimuru DID have the power to solve this situation without murdering 100k+ people. There was no strategic need for this, it was all his selfish desire to bring back his friends. ThaT's why he's evil and why he's like Overlord, only he (or the way the anime presents him) pretends to be "good".

[DarthEnderX]

This wasn't a defensive measure, and no, it's not just to murder soldiers who killed your friends in an ongoing war, these soldiers carried out orders.

Ah yes, that old chestnut. "It's okay to commit atrocities as long as you were just following orders."

We all know what international law thinks of that particular excuse.

There was no strategic need for this, it was all his selfish desire to bring back his friends.

How is resurrecting a bunch of OTHER people, who were unjustly murdered, selfish?

@Darth - Most of the soldiers he killed aren't the ones guilty of killing his friends and people.

But they were literally on their way to DO that. And they can't even claim ignorance. It was the clearly stated objective of their army that they were going to righteously massacre an entire nation of people.

It is an army who's public goal was racial genocide. They are straight up as guilty as any Nazi soldier would be.

[shinta|hikari]

@Kraco - I think that's what Mfauli is saying, that Rimuru isn't a just hero. I just wanted to clarify it.

@Darth - Most of the soldiers he killed aren't the ones guilty of killing his friends and people. He just sacrificed them to save his friends, which has a lot of moral issues.

@Buff - Himmel would not kill 10K to save a few, that's for sure.

The thing is, the story isn't even trying to paint Rimuru as good here. He is in fact a brutal and cruel demon lord, and that means he is evil in many ways, just like all his brethren. It is weird for Mfauli to expect pure goodness from him, but it is also wrong to think everything Rimuru has done is just and moral in many of our human perspectives.

[MFauli]

I mean, shinta, he's depicted as cute and friendly and everything. And I can't stand the big titty-secretary who won't allow any ever so slight criticism against Rimuru, she's the worst. Bitch should have stayed dead.

Anyway, glad to see at least shinta understands my point <3

[shinta|hikari]

Cute and friendly... like Kyubey?

[MFauli]

Cute and friendly... like Kyubey?

Kyuubei is creepy from the start, come on lol

But yeah, Rimuru is a Kyuubei in the making.

[Kraco]

If you can slay every single soldier of an invading army while they are happily and carelessly camping, you'd be called a peerless military strategist. If you meet them on the battlefield when they are fully prepared and fighting back, you risk losses on your own side. War is about maximising enemy casualties and minimising your own (at least any war not run by Moscow). Unfortunately that's more often than not extremely difficult.

If the enemy soldiers didn't want to die, they only needed not to invade. War has a tendency to kill people. Every single soldier ever to exist acknowledges that.

Since Rimuru desires a peaceful coexistence with Falmuth, he decided to keep his military genius a secret and gave the credit to Veldora. That way the people of Falmuth would fear him less.

[MFauli]

Since Rimuru desires a peaceful coexistence with Falmuth, he decided to keep his military genius a secret and gave the credit to Veldora. That way the people of Falmuth would fear him less.

Rimuru wants peace and a good cooexistence with others ... and you think killing 100k unassuming soldiers without mercy will help his cause? Speaking under real world-assumptions, ofc, because this anime has long decided that Rimuru is a good guy no matter what crimes he commits.

[Kraco]

Rimuru wants peace and a good cooexistence with others ... and you think killing 100k unassuming soldiers without mercy will help his cause? Speaking under real world-assumptions, ofc, because this anime has long decided that Rimuru is a good guy no matter what crimes he commits.

Yes, it will. Did you watch this episode fully or did you decide to stop watching the show before finishing it? Under Rimuru's orders, Diablo is building the foundation for that peaceful coexistence. Those 100k soldiers dying will pretty much ensure Falmuth has no choice but to live peacefully. Nobody knows what's going to happen 50 years later, but that's hardly a priority right here and now.

[shinta|hikari]

Sure, war is not at all in alignment with morality.

The saying goes, "All is fair in love and war." And when all is fair, there is no morality.

[shinta|hikari]

But if the soldiers decide to not do it, they will be killed for not following orders. Even if they wanted to commit genocide, a moral person wouldn't just pre-emptively (or even retaliatorily) murder them all. There are other methods available to someone as powerful as Rimuru, such as convincing them to stop through a show of power (blow up a mountain) or assassinating their leaders to minimize loss of life.

The key thing here is Rimuru didn't care about doing the right and moral thing. He just wanted to resurrect his people (which I cannot fault him for). Sacrificing thousands of lives (that can be redeemed, people change) to revive a few of his friends and comrades is NOT moral and not something a just person would or should do. It is definitely understandable, but it is not morally justifiable in most human paradigms.

[DarthEnderX]

But if the soldiers decide to not do it, they will be killed for not following orders.

Not if enough of them refused. Evil only has that power because enough people agree to go along with it.

The key thing here is Rimuru didn't care about doing the right and moral thing. He just wanted to resurrect his people (which I cannot fault him for).

I disagree. The people Rimuru wanted to resurrect were innocent. The people he wanted to sacrifice were racist murderers.

Again, it comes down to a trolley problem. Racist murderers' lives are not worth the same as innocents.

[MFauli]

Not if enough of them refused. Evil only has that power because enough people agree to go along with it.

Yeah, in an ideal, utopian world that'd be the case. In such world, however, war wouldn't exist to begin with. You're creating a fantasy to justify your bloodlust.

I disagree. The people Rimuru wanted to resurrect were innocent. The people he wanted to sacrifice were racist murderers.

Again, it comes down to a trolley problem. Racist murderers' lives are not worth the same as innocents.

A soldier going out there to kill monsters is not a "racist murderer". Even if we assume that most of these soldiers were bad (it's entirely unrealistic to assume ALL of them were bad), that doesn't justify killing them without mercy, because, as shinta said, people can change. And Rimuru of all had the power to force a change. He chose not to because resurrecting his friends was more important to him. Which is understandable on a personal level. But it's not a moral choice.

Here's a thought experiment: Would the 100k soldiers still be alive, at least some, had Rimuru not had the option to resurrect his friends? The answer to that tells you everything about Rimuru's morals.

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, in an ideal, utopian world that'd be the case. In such world, however, war wouldn't exist to begin with. You're creating a fantasy to justify your bloodlust.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." is hardly a concept I created.

A soldier going out there to kill monsters is not a "racist murderer". Even if we assume that most of these soldiers were bad (it's entirely unrealistic to assume ALL of them were bad), that doesn't justify killing them without mercy, because, as shinta said, people can change. And Rimuru of all had the power to force a change. He chose not to because resurrecting his friends was more important to him. Which is understandable on a personal level. But it's not a moral choice.

This is the part I don't get.

Why is your position on this exact same issue the 180° opposite when it comes to Eren. Who commits a vastly greater act of mass murder, for an even less justified reason. Eren also possessed all of the power and everyone he killed COULD have changed. And yet you fully supported Eren's decision.