That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime: Tensei shitara Slime datta Ken

[neflight86]

I mean, he's not. That's a real common thing in fiction that, when someone does something evil, the ones that didn't prevent it blame themselves. And, frankly, it's a bullshit trope.

You aren't responsible for the actions of others. At least, not when you have no authority over them. Everyone is responsible for their own actions.

It's one of those ideas that would make Batman the most evil man ever for not killing the Joker. But even then, Batman KNOWS Joker is gonna escape and kill more people. Rimuru didn't know any of this would happen.

While self-blame is a dangerous slippery slope, I think his political non-action has at least some blame in the attack. A Japanese (business) person, of all people, I would expect to be especially sensitive to 'reading the atmosphere' and understanding that 'rocking the boat' will invite ire. He was told as much by the Dwarven King and his merchant pal episodes ago.

As far as being not accepting responsibility for the actions of others, doesn't that undermine the entire idea of retaliation, or at least the beneficial caution its threat brings? Even though (I agree) you aren't ultimately responsible for other's actions, you can to some degree predict and steer them... or at least you should attempt to when your decision making may lead to nation affecting issues and their further escalations.

It's as strong as the combined powers of everyone he can kill.

Kill, or happen to befriend in the first episode...

[Ryllharu]

While self-blame is a dangerous slippery slope, I think his political non-action has at least some blame in the attack. A Japanese (business) person, of all people, I would expect to be especially sensitive to 'reading the atmosphere' and understanding that 'rocking the boat' will invite ire. He was told as much by the Dwarven King and his merchant pal episodes ago.

I would also remind you that the Dwarven King strongly reminded Rimuru that he is a king, and needs to act as one, with all the burdens that come with it. Or that by being so casual and laid back, he is doing a disservice to his people. The visit to a nation that he already gets along with so well ended well enough, so he shrugged it off that what he had been doing to date was working out okay so far, so, maybe he doesn't need to change.

He got along fine with Blumund, who advocate for avoiding war (but that's because they're so small they know that Tempest would destroy them instantly...so there's that).

Rimuru has since realized, and admitted to his closest allies, that his sentimentality about being human before, and from a peaceful nation like Japan, blinded him to the reality that not all humans are inherently good, civil, or deal with things diplomatically.

This is his arc to finally becoming a king, though as a demon lord. The reason why he needed to change were telegraphed from the start of this season.

As far as being not accepting responsibility for the actions of others, doesn't that undermine the entire idea of retaliation, or at least the beneficial caution its threat brings? Even though (I agree) you aren't ultimately responsible for other's actions, you can to some degree predict and steer them... or at least you should attempt to when your decision making may lead to nation affecting issues and their further escalations.

I'd argue that Rimuru rescinding his edict to never harm humans under any circumstances means he's reconciling his responsibility to his people. He's peaceful with other nations, obviously favoring trade. But he's now going to prove that attacking Tempest is a very poor idea.

He wants Youm to become the king, make a puppet state, and immediately resume trade with them instead. He's doing swift, brutal action, then returning to the status quo of happy, peaceful relations.

Though he's probably going to go after Clayman for continually provoking him.

[DarthEnderX]

While self-blame is a dangerous slippery slope, I think his political non-action has at least some blame in the attack.

I don't. That's pure victim-blaming.

[MFauli]

I don't. That's pure victim-blaming.

RIMURU IS THE VICTIM!!!11

rofl

[DarthEnderX]

Sure, it's different.
The thing is, Rimuru is making an example, he could probably have solved the whole thing in a different way but he doesn't want to, nor does he actually care.
That's the deal about what makes him evil in this situation and morally liable.

"It can't be helped I guess" *proceeds to slaughter the army of 20k in seconds*

No, he is wrong, it can be helped.

Can it? The "thing" he want to solve is making his friends not dead anymore.

The only way he's currently aware of doing that is becoming a Demon Lord. And that requires 10k souls.

Could he solve the ATTACK in a different way? Yes. But he can't solve the dead friends any other way.

Every nation in this fantasy world seems to have a nuke, if they don't have one, then the whole political landscape makes no sense.
It shouldn't be possibly for any country without a nuke to exist.

...you know most countries in our world don't have nukes, right? Countries that continue to exist despite not having them?

I just don't want this to be viewed as an act of last resort or some bullshit like that, because it truely wasn't and isn't.

No, it's an act of justice. He is defending his people and retaliating for an earlier attack. Could he resolve this peacefully? Probably. But these attackers don't DESERVE a peaceful resolution.

RIMURU IS THE VICTIM!!!11

Yes?

[KrayZ33]

...you know most countries in our world don't have nukes, right? Countries that continue to exist despite not having them?

They are all connected to countries with nukes - have guarantees and all that kind of stuff, most of them even have nukes from other countries inside their territory..
Those that aren't are extremely unstable and basically not a country at all.
There is basically no country worth mentioning north of the equator that doesn't have nuclear weapons.

Our world is also completely different compared to theirs were open declarations of war are seemingly
very common, so it's a different political landscape alltogether.
In our world, it actually matters if America fights someone on the other side of the planet.
In their's, no one would give a fuck because it's "far away".

What I'm saying is that the attacking nation must have some sort of extremely powerful being on their side or as an ally, otherwise their existence (especially since it is as rich as it is) doesn't make sense.
It would have been steamrolled by another nation/demon lord hundreds of years ago since armies are, as we have seen here, obviously completely pointless.

No, it's an act of justice. He is defending his people and retaliating for an earlier attack. Could he resolve this peacefully? Probably. But these attackers don't DESERVE a peaceful resolution.

Bullshit.
They deserve a peaceful solution just like any other. These are soldiers and not the rule-makers. They are victims too when they are lead to certain death unknowingly and with lies.
If it's possible, you do it if you are a decent being, even if they are the aggressor. Pre-emptively killing everyone just so they don't hurt another being is not only dumb, it has absolutely nothing to do with justice.
Even if he wants to revive his minions, it's not the right thing to do. He's killing tens of thousands for a few hundred (if the number was even that high)
It's hardly different from taking revenge or using the "eye for an eye"-idiom. It's a degenerate way of thinking and he, as a modern human being, should know that. Would it be "fair" to turn around? No.
But that's not the issue I'm having with this.
It's not that I can't understand what he is doing, it's just that he lost all the moral high ground he had. There is no question about that.
Since you were talking about these things in this/other threads, I'd have thought you understood this.

Hell, even World of Warcraft gets it.
When Uther threw Arthas into the maw for all he had done to him and his people, he didn't serve justice. He got his revenge.

[Kraco]

Even if he wants to revive his minions, it's not the right thing to do. He's killing tens of thousands for a few hundred (if the number was even that high)
It's hardly different from taking revenge or using the "eye for an eye"-idiom. It's a degenerate way of thinking and he, as a modern human being, should know that. Would it be fair to turn around? No.
But that's not the issue I'm having with this.
It's not that I can't understand what he is doing, it's just that he lost all the moral high ground he had. There is no question about that.

Chancellor (or was it chairman?) Rimuru's first responsibility are the lives and prosperity of the citizens of the Jura Tempest Federation (Alliance?). The first responsibility of the king of Falmuth are the citizens of Falmuth. No matter the cost, Rimuru must place his own people before the people of other nations, and the same goes for the other rulers. In a war, let 10 or 100 enemy combatants die for one of your own? Every time. Rather than blame Rimuru for the deaths of Falmuth soldies, you should be asking is the king of Falmuth ready to bear their deaths on his conscience? But then again, I doubt that man has much in the way of conscience, so it could be a useless question.

Moral high ground isn't of much use for those lying dead on the streets. You know, under the anti-monster and anti-magic fields they were almost as helpless against the otherworlders and the knights as the Falmuth troops are now against Rimuru.

[KrayZ33]

Chancellor (or was it chairman?) Rimuru's first responsibility are the lives and prosperity of the citizens of the Jura Tempest Federation (Alliance?). The first responsibility of the king of Falmuth are the citizens of Falmuth. No matter the cost, Rimuru must place his own people before the people of other nations, and the same goes for the other rulers. In a war, let 10 or 100 enemy combatants die for one of your own? Every time. Rather than blame Rimuru for the deaths of Falmuth soldies, you should be asking is the king of Falmuth ready to bear their deaths on his conscience? But then again, I doubt that man has much in the way of conscience, so it could be a useless question.

Moral high ground isn't of much use for those lying dead on the streets. You know, under the anti-monster and anti-magic fields they were almost as helpless against the otherworlders and the knights as the Falmuth troops are now against Rimuru.

Big fat - nooooope.
He is acting on a fucking fairy-tale.
You are justifying the death of thousands of individuals for the 1% chance. It's really pathetic if not simply blurted out but said with conviction.
Statisticly speaking, he is killing 10.000 for 1 individual - if he is lucky. But that one individual is already dead. So basically, he is playing god. That has absolutely *nothing* to do with "justice".
The only life he has a right to judge and take away is his own. It's not his decision to make and take lives from and grant them to others.

He is *taking* lives, not protecting them. He has no obligation to anyone or anything to do that.
He could've stopped the army without the loss of lives like that. It's really not a "what if" or "maybe not", he so obviously could.

Everyone should know that his actions are understandable. Everyone should equally know that his actions are wrong and the fact that people don't, scares the shit out of me.

Rather than blame Rimuru for the deaths of Falmuth soldies, you should be asking is the king of Falmuth ready to bear their deaths on his conscience? But then again, I doubt that man has much in the way of conscience, so it could be a useless question.

I can blame multiple people at once. One wrong action doesn't mean the reaction to it is always right.
It has never even remotely been part of the discussion that the King of Falmuth is in the wrong. That is obvious.
What isn't so obvious, it seems, is that killing people (especially those that had no direct involvement in what has happened) instead of forgiving them is wrong. And that's pretty sad.

"Justice" my ass.
"obligation" my ass, he is supposed to protect his citizen, if there are ways to do so without killing and ending the existence of half a nation, it's the obvious way to do that instead. Doesn't matter if it's "fair" or not.

I don't think it's a coincidence that he turns into a "demon"-lord after all this.

[DarthEnderX]

There is basically no country worth mentioning north of the equator that doesn't have nuclear weapons.

Wow...lot going on in THAT sentence...

They deserve a peaceful solution just like any other. These are soldiers and not the rule-makers. They are victims too when they are lead to certain death unknowingly and with lies.

Ah yes, the old "just following orders" Nazi soldier argument. Because soldiers have no obligation to ensure their orders are ethical before carrying them out.

It's just that this action is not the "good" choice.

It's not the "goodest" choice, but it damn sure isn't evil either.

Also just to make sure: Rimuru is the attacker here. He's not defending. Pls no "he's pro-actively defending their town" bs.

Complete horseshit. They are an army IN THE PROCESS OF INVADING. Their advance forces were STILL BESIEGING HIS CITY! He is ABSOLUTELY defending.

Murdering 20000 people or some gamble to resurrect his friends.

20000 people, on their way to murder his entire country. Fuck...them.

[KrayZ33]

Wow...lot going on in THAT sentence...

You think so?
Not really.
The countries that could actually field an army for war do all own nuclear weapons.

Ah yes, the old "just following orders" Nazi soldier argument. Because soldiers have no obligation to ensure their orders are ethical before carrying them out.

Not sure why you play the nazi card. These people probably fought monsters in the past and know that they are usually beast that kill and slay their fellow comrades, families and protegees, so it's easy to influence them.
And even Nazi soldiers don't deserve to die when the alternative is to let them live, so I don't get where you are comming from in the first place.
So much for your "justice"

[Kraco]

Even though (I agree) you aren't ultimately responsible for other's actions, you can to some degree predict and steer them... or at least you should attempt to when your decision making may lead to nation affecting issues and their further escalations.

That's precisely what he's doing: Destroying the whole invading army will send a message nobody can ignore. The threshold of attacking Jura Tempest Federation (or whatever the official name was, I can never remember it) will be considerably higher for anyone. It's exactly how it works in RL as well. When a country is known to possess military might, expansionist countries will think twice before invading, as it might not be worth it. If a country is chaotic and poorly defended, a neighbour will be attracted to attack, just like Russia targeted Ukraine.

I'm pretty sure Machiavelli wrote that a ruler must be able to show ruthlessness, even though ruthlessness and cruelty aren't good ways to rule. They can be necessary, however, since for some other rulers they may be the only understandable language.