Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation

[KrayZ33]

I don't know about all that but "need" is certainly not "it would be cool if he had stayed".
That's my point.

Ruijerd right now would be completely depending on Rudy (UNTIL something happens where he can help which might not even in the next 20 years), not the other way around.
Not something an adult should do to a kid, especially if you consider what Rudy will try to do if Ruijerd is around. He won't look out for his own or himself, he would try to help Ruijerd first and foremost whenever possible and make the rescue of his mother/sylphie a secondary objective (as he cannot do anyhing but "travel")

[MFauli]

You guys ignored my question: Who's stronger, Ruijerd or Ghislaine? Or are you unsure? I found the question interesting.

[Ryllharu]

Ghislaine is a Sword King, but since Ruijerd uses a spear...so we stupidly can't actually compare them until we see them fight each other, or someone that one can beat but the other cannot.

[MFauli]

Ghislaine is a Sword King, but since Ruijerd uses a spear...so we stupidly can't actually compare them until we see them fight each other, or someone that one can beat but the other cannot.

Yeah, I just wondered whether Ghislaine would have more of a chance against Orsted or not (Ghislaine
s first action scene where she attacked an enemy in the town with literal lightning-speed imo was more impressive than anything Ruijerd showed), and whether Eris can learn from her or not. Guess we'll have to find out.

[Kraco]

Ruijerd has a few centuries more experience than Ghislaine, for whatever it's worth. We haven't actually seen how tough Ruijerd is because we have only seen him beat things that aren't so impressive and then lose against someone called a god. Nothing in between. Of course we haven't seen even that much from Ghislaine.

[David75]

My guess is Gold title is superior to King title. So Orsted wins against Ghislaine.
We have no title for Ruijerd, hard to tell. He's probably King level or near.
Against Ghislaine, would his raw strength surpass Ghislaine speed and agility ? Impossible to tell with what we've seen so far.

[Buffalobiian]

Episode 23

------------------

Nicely finished off for now.

-Sylphie at least is safe. Her overall vibe got a lot less approachable though.

-Eris confirming what we knew she was feeling already. Just needs to grow her hair out a little. Also explains why there's such a big box for Rudy. Wonder if he just shoved hair into there or made it slightly more ornamental. Wonder if she's in on the plan to announce her death as well, because if she is then she'd be wandering around with a different name - making her hard to track again. And if she isn't, well then the marriage thing might come to haunt her again. Not that she'd be weak enough to be bullied then anyway.

-Dunno if Rudy has leads, but he's heading somewhere cold anyway. Wonder if he'll run into Zenith first or Sylphie.

-Demon God's just dumb as bricks. She's gonna run out of eyes like this to give people.

-Paul going "Mum's waiting for your older brother to find her" rubbed me the wrong way. Really? Are you even trying anymore?

[Kraco]

It's pretty ironic that Eris looks up to Rudeus so much and imagines him so mighty that it never visited her mind that her sudden disappearance might actually leave him really hurt. All that admiration made her pretty blind.

And if she isn't, well then the marriage thing might come to haunt her again. Not that she'd be weak enough to be bullied then anyway.

She abandoned that path already. If people come looking for her because of it, I can foresee those people finding themselves with cracked skulls.

-Paul going "Mum's waiting for your older brother to find her" rubbed me the wrong way. Really? Are you even trying anymore?

He had to tell her something because that's how little kids operate, at least not-Aisha little kids. As it is, he wouldn't even know where the begin to look for Zenith. However, since he knows Norn isn't too fond of Rudeus at the moment, maybe he tried to make Rudeus look better in her eyes by saying that.

[MFauli]

Yeah, has Paul completely stopped searching? That was weird.

Sylphie being awesome is ... awesome. I hope she hasn't given up on becoming Rudy's lover, anybody is better than Eris ;o

I liked the depiction of Rudy's depression, at least for me it felt really relatable.

[Ryllharu]

I liked the tone of this episode a lot more than the last one. Clarified Eris' feelings, but she's a dumbass through and through, so she actually hurt Rudy more than she ever intended. Ruijerd seeing the work paying off which was some good feels, and the parallel with all the lives that Rudy improves intercut between him feeling sorry for himself, reliving his original trauma, and finally getting over it for real this time was well edited.

I did always wonder what caused him to be bullied, and it explains a whole lot more about Rudy's hangups over all this time. He used to stand up for himself and the little injustices of the world, despite being out of shape and weak compared to his foes. He even endured the beatings, but it was the humiliation that broke him.

That said...I really disliked Slyphie's Gurren Lagaan glasses. They're really out of place in the setting. It's not quite up to the same tier of causing a reaction of immediate loathing like THIS SHIT did, but it immediately reminded me of that (Kanemoto Hisako playing Zenith doesn't help).

If the demon queen couldn't see Zenith, how does she really know she's alive?

[MFauli]

I wouldn't say Rudy is over his trauma yet. He remembered that there's someone who needs him and that gave him a new goal. He will only have truly overcome his past when he can function even without a goal.

Btw. the whole setup of how the 3 bullies humiliated him is bs. First of all, why did Rudy even go with them to some empty basketball hall? He could just have said "not coming with you" and if they started dragging him, yelled for teachers' help. I know it's anime clichee, but that doesn't make it any less bs. And then the bullies' extreme actions. Undressing Rudy and tying him to a spot where everybody would see him. What kinda deep end-psychopaths are these 3 guys?! That's comically evil and, again, bs. Bullies don't do this because they know they wouldn't go undamaged after such action. Ofc, we are to believed that in Japanese schools this is totally normal and possible and the victim is powerless. Like, I was bullied for many years, too, and nobody ever helped me. But even then I'm convinced that had they undressed and tied me to a spot like that, somebody would have punished them hard. I don't know. It would have been better if the humiliation was done more sensible, more believably.

If the demon queen couldn't see Zenith, how does she really know she's alive?

The same the telepaths in the scifi novel I'm currently reading cannot read certain beings' minds, but only receive their feelings. Aka something blocks the "signal", but still leaves through enough to let there be a signal.

[Kraco]

Btw. the whole setup of how the 3 bullies humiliated him is bs. First of all, why did Rudy even go with them to some empty basketball hall? He could just have said "not coming with you" and if they started dragging him, yelled for teachers' help. I know it's anime clichee, but that doesn't make it any less bs. And then the bullies' extreme actions. Undressing Rudy and tying him to a spot where everybody would see him. What kinda deep end-psychopaths are these 3 guys?! That's comically evil and, again, bs. Bullies don't do this because they know they wouldn't go undamaged after such action. Ofc, we are to believed that in Japanese schools this is totally normal and possible and the victim is powerless. Like, I was bullied for many years, too, and nobody ever helped me. But even then I'm convinced that had they undressed and tied me to a spot like that, somebody would have punished them hard. I don't know. It would have been better if the humiliation was done more sensible, more believably.

Of course in manga/anime it would be exaggerated. Just like in school gang series the schools are utterly lawless and full of destructive fighting. If you make it look more realistic, it doesn't necessarily feel so bad with a few glimpses, unless you have personally experienced it, which most of us probably haven't. In fact if I hadn't read so much manga, I couldn't even imagine so many varied ways of (realistic) bullying.

We just saw three events, but I'd imagine they were just the beginning, the escalation, and the climax. But maybe that was all, who knows. Then your question would indeed be relevant. If that wasn't all of it, then it would make more sense how he ended up with those bullies in an isolated place and perhaps how it got so bad.

[Ryllharu]

What kinda deep end-psychopaths are these 3 guys?! That's comically evil and, again, bs. Bullies don't do this because they know they wouldn't go undamaged after such action. Ofc, we are to believed that in Japanese schools this is totally normal and possible and the victim is powerless. Like, I was bullied for many years, too, and nobody ever helped me. But even then I'm convinced that had they undressed and tied me to a spot like that, somebody would have punished them hard. I don't know. It would have been better if the humiliation was done more sensible, more believably.

Not really exaggerated here, and it is based on historical fact.

He was a 34 year old NEET when the series starts (presume 2012 when the novels started). Work backward and he was in high school in the 1990s.

Bullying in Japan in the 1980s and 1990s made international news, and was the topic of a lot of sociology, education, and criminal justice studies. It was first noticed in the mid-80s, but then suffered from a severe spike right around when he would have been in high school.

At the time, it was a significant social crisis. It was considered that the suicides were spurred on by "normal" students bullying the victim (as opposed to like...delinquents), so it was pervasive. Ignored or encouraged by the teachers.

[MFauli]

Not really exaggerated here, and it is based on historical fact.

He was a 34 year old NEET when the series starts (presume 2012 when the novels started). Work backward and he was in high school in the 1990s.

Bullying in Japan in the 1980s and 1990s made international news, and was the topic of a lot of sociology, education, and criminal justice studies. It was first noticed in the mid-80s, but then suffered from a severe spike right around when he would have been in high school.

At the time, it was a significant social crisis. It was considered that the suicides were spurred on by "normal" students bullying the victim (as opposed to like...delinquents), so it was pervasive. Ignored or encouraged by the teachers.

That doesn't mention any extreme bullying like this.

[DarthEnderX]

If the demon queen couldn't see Zenith, how does she really know she's alive?

If her power doesn't work on the dead, then even knowing her general area at least confirms she's alive.

if they started dragging him, yelled for teachers' help.

I've been given the impression through anime that Japanese teachers pretend to not notice bullying.

[KrayZ33]

I've been given the impression through anime that Japanese teachers pretend to not notice bullying.

Depending on the type of teacher I could say the same thing about some teachers in Germany...
Hell... some teachers were actually bullied. Some of them just don't have any control over these kids for some reason.
I had a latin teacher that no one would listen to and classes were pure chaos and screaming and she wouldn't do a thing.
Same thing with one of my religion teacher back then. And I went to a "good" school, lol.
I mean, there were days when they would just turn to the blackboard, write something down and talk to themselves (since no one could hear them even if you tried due to all the noise and screaming).

I have no idea how grown men and women can "fear" 12-16yo kids like that... if it's like that in Germany, I can only imagine how it is in a country like Japan where you lose "face" if you don't have things under control and you "struggle" educating your pupils So it's probably better to just pretend everything is fine and to pretend "bullying doesn't happen under my watch".

Ok, Mr Expert

Use google:

‘The certificate: This suicide was caused by ijime’

I certify that I’m going to commit suicide because of ijime, on Saturday 11 November. Please show this letter to the bullies, teachers, the principal, bullies’ parents, and my parents. Also, please show all the letters to the media.

To the Minister of Education and Science Ibuki Bunmei

The reason I write this letter is that I find it too hard to live on. Bullies have never been punished. I told teachers about ijime, but they’ve done nothing. I told my parents about it but I was only told to ‘put up with it’. They contacted the principal and the board of education, but nothing changed. My parents and teachers only say ‘your personality is the problem’, so ‘put up with it’. If the situation does not improve before Wednesday 8 November, I’ll take my own life as I wrote in ‘The certificate: This suicide was caused by ijime’. I’ll do it at school. I can trust no one, so I write to you Minister Ibuki Bunmei…. Please release my name to the media on Saturday 11 November. Please. Please.

To all classmates:

Why do you bully me?... I am going to kill myself because of your bullying…. I saw on the TV that bullies went with teachers, the principal and board of education to destroy evidence, tell lies and say that there was no ijime. No bullies take responsibility. It’s the fault of adults. You may think that you’ll be protected by adults, but you’re wrong. I wrote letters to many people so that you must all kill yourselves to take responsibility….

To the class teacher:

Why don’t you help me? I told you about ijime many times and so did my parents. You told me to ‘hang on’ and ‘it is your fault’… If you don’t caution the bullies by Wednesday 8 November, I’ll commit suicide at school on Saturday 11 November. You’re no different from bullies. I’ll hold a grudge against you forever and will never forgive you. When I die, you’ll tell lies on TV. You’ll definitely say that ‘there was no ijime’ or ‘there is no causal relationship between ijime and suicide’…. I can’t trust you. So I’ve decided to write to the Minister. Other teachers are the same. I can’t trust teachers. They pretend that they haven’t seen ijime. You saw me being bullied, didn’t you? But you did nothing. Why? I don’t understand.

To my parents:

When you read this, I will be gone. I’m sorry. I couldn’t stand it any more. Bullies, teachers, the principal, board of education – they’re all the same. I saw on TV that there were others who want to commit suicide, and I found that I don’t have to put up with this any more. I’m going to die because of the bullies, teachers, the principal, and the board of education…. They’ll all try to avoid responsibility as I saw on TV. I can see that and I hate them.

Japanese culture is absolute trash-tier in that regard. Working there sucks for a fact (at least as a white collar) and so does going to school it seems. Socially speaking, it's basically a third world country. It's probably not by chance that all the weird shit happens over there and not in Australia or Belgium or whatever.
Like.. nearly 1% of adults living as "hikikomori". 1998 the goverment said only 50.000 are affected by this, now in 2019 they admit it's over a million.
This tells you a lot about Japan 20-40 years ago.... and it's not "wow, the japanese people were tougher 20 years ago" btw

[MFauli]

oh btw wtf. this was the last episode?! is it known when it continues? :/

[Buffalobiian]

It could easily just be "Zenith is alive because my eye can't see dead people".

From the flashback, it actually looked like Rudy was decently tall, though it could just be perspective given the short girl standing in front of him.

[Kraco]

Right. It's hard to keep in mind that not only is the source novel so old, but the MC dude had isolated himself for such a long time before dying. As far as I know, bullying still plays a role in student suicides in Japan, but it was much worse before, probably because there wasn't Internet available to make things public, plus less international attention. The old, hard-line generations have also retired or died. Nowadays Japanese schools can't even demand students with a foreign background to dye their hair, without making headlines.

[David75]

I can understand the basket scene, easy to be traped or forced to go there.
But you need time and strenght to strip an overweight teenager and hang him on that fence where everyone can see the while process... That I feel is unlikely.