Iraq War

[Assertn]

whoa geez...as evil as the nazis were??.....wow.....

well....everyone's interpretations of good and evil is based on the society they were raised in.....so if you wanna come up with self-centered accusations like that then go ahead.....but i know of a friend of mine who returned home from the army just a few weeks ago from iraq.....his job was to take care of civilian affairs, and luckily was never in a situation where he needed to shoot at someone.......America's not trying to persecute people....just help them....its the moronic iraq nationalists who blindly support a corrupt government that stir things up. Their perception of good and evil is vastly different than what most democratic societies believe in, just as your perception seems to be a bit more distorted than what most people who know what they're talking about is [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

not that im someone who normally knows what im talking in international affairs, but I do have a good idea of what was happening in iraq when my friend was there

[Lego]

Can i be a hentai nazi?

Comparing the people in the united states, all of us to the nazi regime is a little harsh. Bush's comparison can be iffy.

But calling all of america's people nazi's ? Can i have a hit of what your on? The Nazi's killed around 6 million or more jewish people, including women and children. I don't think the figures in iraq or anywher else aren't that extreme with that amount of predjudice.

Hell, france is baning all religous embloyms, head scarfs,large crosses, yamichas(don't kill me , forget what jewish people call them) from schools, do we hear about that, nope?

Taiwan is in a election crisis, BIG TIME. Do we hear about this? Nopers

China has soooooo many human rights violations.. not to mention a little thing called SARS. Do we hear about that? Nopers

Russia has chechen rebels. Hell, they killed off their own people trying to liberate a theater a year or so back. Do we hear about this? Nope

Germany? pfft. I fail to listen to someone over the age of 40 from germany who is bitching and moaning about "human rights violations that the us commits all over the world". Come on germany, remeber a little thing called the holocaust?

Theres some much backhanded shit going on around the world, you'd be suprised at whos dealing with who.

Hell, even in the UN, where everyone wanted more inspections, theres a HUUUUUGE oil for food scandal. Where buissness men,politicians from different countries got kickbacks from saddam for oil and etc. We hardly hear about that.

To sum it up, im not defending everything the country i live in does. Hell, i don't even agree with all of my governments decisions. What i do hate are generalizations. Thats like me saying, well everyone in france smells like rotten pigs.

Its the "hip" thing to do these days around the world, to jump in and bash Bush and the United States. If another country went into war like we did, we would be bashing them to. Its just a outlet for a lot of agression and frustration.

Hell, ever think who organizes the anti-US , anti-bush, anti-war protestors? Go take a look at whos heading these "Rallies".

Like i said before, im neither pro war or anti war. Im in the middle, i agree with seom stuff, disagree with others.

I just hate generalizations.

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: Lego
Germany? pfft. I fail to listen to someone over the age of 40 from germany who is bitching and moaning about "human rights violations that the us commits all over the world". Come on germany, remeber a little thing called the holocaust?

i agree with you for the most part...but i'd have to argue that line
alot of people who supported hitler, including alot of the soldiers, did so out of fear of being executed for treason....not because they willingly supported his ideals

[Lego]

alot of people who supported hitler, including alot of the soldiers, did so out of fear of being executed for treason....not because they willingly supported his ideals

Yeh, i remebe reading about that. Better to do what your told sometimes then face death or the consiquences.

The point im trying to make tough, is that everyone, soon as they find out im from the US, tries to down me saying you kill civilians blarghy blarghy.

When i find out there from germany, a african nation, or something to that degree, i laugh at them.

Everyones hands are dirty in something over the past couple years, well maybe except switzerland and their nuetrality.

[Xollence]

Lego, don't you mean the people over 60 years old? 40 year olds weren't even alive during World War 2.

[Lego]

Yeh, it was one of those heat of the moment rants where everything comes to you [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[JusDaMan]

THis is out of subject and all but...
From wat i know studying world history...
Hitler is famous for world war 2 and stuff thats y alot of ppl consider him mad evil... but From wat i read before.. this other guy named mao zak dong or something from china. He made hitler look like a kid. that Guy was like "wat boi? u saying i suk?" then see ya in the next life.

I BLAME BUSH FOR THE DOWNFALL OF EVERYTHING!
ALL HAIL CLINTON
ALL HAIL THAT VIETNAM WAR GUY WHOS RUNNING RITE NOW

[Vagabond]

nevermind

[Lego]

Heres something to lighten the conversation

[Assertn]

if you think about it, wouldnt it be best for everyone to have a unified system of government anyway? there wouldnt be political differences, there could easily be a worldwide market system.....and so forth.....the way things stand now there are conflicts going on all the time among the smaller countries. If iraq was democratic, then the US would do whatever it could to help their economy boom and make everyone there better off, just as we did for alot of the european countries after WW's (and we offered tons of money for those european countries to rebuild the cities and everything that was destroyed, and we didnt even expect them to pay that back either)

there are lots of iraqi civilians who hated the way things were there, some of you who are saying that trying to liberate them is bad is just the conclusion you made as you comfortably sit in your nice couch watching the US changing the lives of those people and probably assuming that everyone's quality of life is as good as yours and that nobody needs change. To say that they should have to put up with the government that saddam ruled just he's not bothering anybody outside of iraq is almost selfish.

[JusDaMan]

My suggestion would be celerbety death match for real. even though Im gonna get flamed for this... I would just wanna watch people duke it out in the ring. they have a dispute, just go to a death match. Its better to kill 1 person than 10000000000 people =). and i wanna see saddam or osama fight bush Lol thats another reason

[Koyuki]

It don't support US, but Saddam is plain evil. Just watch South park. Saddam did a "Mussolini". And compairing Bush and US to the natzis is just wrong.
Most of the natzis, was just plain germans who wanted a better life. So they joined the natzis and got food.

Man can't they help other countries insteed of killing people. It's the people of US who's paying for the war.

[JusDaMan]

=) China's military is on par with americas. not alot of people believe that because we rarely hear crap about wat china is doing.. the latest news is SARS which happened like a year ago.. (besides the 7 china man going to iraq). Reason why back then china lost to japan. industrial revolution, Japanese modernized with western ways and wooped alot of ass. china was still using old school renasance cannons when japan was using Like tanks and crap. Man japan even wooped russia around that time too.
When japan bombed pearl harbor america didn't go in with that much force cause japan was a "rebel", they were born to fight. american woulda won eventually but the sacarfice was too great. that's y america did a 2 hiroshima's.

[SamuraiOdin]

Who are China's big allies though? We have most of the powerful nations siding with us, and in some cases *i.e. North Korea's Nukes* China even sides with us. China is not a problem simply because if one of us attacked the other, it would incite World War 3, and no one is willing to do that. So while two super powers balance each other out, it in no way stops the US from doing what it needs to.

[Vagabond]

You're giving the US too much credit.
As far as im concerned if it weren't for the russians the US and the rest of the world would've been screwed.

[Lego]

I would love to see any country, do something about the violence in Africa. The congo and etc instead of iraq,north korea and etc.

It seems africa gets looked over the most.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

Do I think war is the answer? No!
War is actually the question....YES! is the answer.

You are all foolish to think that your voices actually matter.
Things are happening right now that you will never ever
know about and probably never understand. But to sit
at home and bitch about the things that are going on in
this world and continue to sit without action leads me to
believe more in my state of opinion which is...fuck it!

[img]i/expressions/devil.gif[/img]

[JusDaMan]

Originally posted by: Lego
I would love to see any country, do something about the violence in Africa. The congo and etc instead of iraq,north korea and etc.

It seems africa gets looked over the most.

Aite let me ask u.. Since when did australia EVER in human race get attacked. Same question for antartica (im sure theres atleast 100 people living there)

[Stoopider]

Originally posted by: JusDaMan

Aite let me ask u.. Since when did australia EVER in human race get attacked. Same question for antartica (im sure theres atleast 100 people living there)

I think Australia were getting attacked by the Japanese. But I dont think they ever invaded.
I know this because I saw a documentary about Japanese zero fighters crashing all over the Northern parts of Australia. Something like that lah.

But it wasn't a full blown Invasion. I'm no History buff, but I suspected during that time, Japanese doods were too far stretched and/or was roaming around Indonesia and/or protecting the Philliipines because during that time, US was retaliating.

[MemnochTheCaT]

Several things I'd like to point out ..

1st, I think the US gets too involved with world affairs, and I wish our govt would worry about serious domestic problems before picking fights with tin-can dictators like Saddam. Alas, we are already involved, I hope the situation improves. Very difficult to stabalize a country where different factions are so hateful of each other that they use murder and violence as their first options. Sadly, the only stable solution seems to be a brutal regime that keeps people in check, like Saddam's. Which brings me to the question .. if that's the best we can hope for, why did we bother? WMD? Terrorist funding? Nah, it's probably just an issue of $. Sad.

2nd, on the China military issue.. China would have been extremely dangerous if they had advanced convential weapons and training in a pre-nuclear world. The fact unfortunately remains, however, that we are in the age of the H-bomb, and that basically nullifies the advantage of huge numbers of troops (just more bodies to fry). So what we are left with is the comparison of arsenals. China's ICBMs are slow, and carry a maximum of 1 5MT warhead at a range of around 13,000km .. and that's their DF5A, which is liquid-silo based .. takes a while to prepare. They only have 20 of these in confirmed existence. China is a respectable force in conventional terms, but a toothless one in terms of nuclear capability. They would need to crank out fast, solid-rocket (no warmup) ICBMs with huge MIRV warhead systems in order to compete.

http://www.nrdc.org/nuclear/nudb/datab17.asp

What is EXTREMELY sick, is the vast and potentially planet-killing nuclear arsenal of the US. Consider the absolutely staggering power of the Ohio-class boomers. A *single* Ohio could fire it's entire payload of 154 tomahawks (which can deliver nuclear payload), in UNDER SIX MINUTES. The same if you have an Ohio outfitted with it's 24 ICBMs, each of which can carry independent MIRV warhead systems ..

The bottom line is that a SINGLE Ohio can kill almost everyone in china within a span of about 30 minutes. That's the world we live in today, SSBN and ICBM/MIRV with huge MT are unequaled. Use in war would have catastrophic consequences for the world.

AFIAK, the last count of US nukes was something like 114x more than China. Only the USSR was as committed as the US was to h-bombs, and it made them go bankrupt.

I'm not sure what's worse, fighting enormous wars like WW2 where millions of soldiers and civilians die the old-fashioned way, or a next-gen nuclear war where billions die in less than a day.