Iraq War

[Assertn]

deception was even worse back before media had as much influence as it did now

you guys talk about how the US lies and stuff....but did you know that Saddam used to kill his own people and point fingers at other countries just to gain more support?
people outside of the US like to just sit there and whine about stuff, but its because of Saddam that Iraq is the way it is now, and his influence over the people just decieves them into believing that whatever he says is the right way. Therefore the deaths on their side is because they are fighting for the beliefs that saddam brainwashed into them, the US isnt purposely killing iraqis

and Vagabond, dont try to be condescending as if you actually know whats good for the world.....im sure if a bunch of foreigners start dissing everyone in your country because your government decided to get involved in global affairs, then you'd be acting the same way we would

edit: ok i didnt realize you were actually in america......i guess i wouldve expected that from someone from another country

[MemnochTheCaT]

It's amazing how people react to coverage of casualties these days. This is nothing like WW1, WW2, or even Korea or Vietnam. All death is bad, especially civilian death, but it's not on the same scale that it has traditionally occurred, and that is something to be thankful for.

My personal feelings on the Iraq situation, are that things were horrible before, horrible now, and will be horrible in the future .. the reason? Too many competing political/religious/business/government groups who all seem to hate each other and will kill as many people as they want to wrest control. Saddam's Baathist murderers are a drop in the bucket to the bloody ambition of the fundamentalist Shiites, who overwhelmingly support a hard-line Islamic government. I have nothing against the islamic faith, but it's a proven fact that islamic governments are notorious for oppressing their citizens, often with bloodythirsty vengeance towards ANY questioning of the rulers.

It's just a big fat messy mistake, that is just going to get worse until the US finally decides it's tired of bringing back it's people in body bags and coffins. Some situations are just lose-lose.

[Swallow Your Soul]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
deception was even worse back before media had as much influence as it did now

you guys talk about how the US lies and stuff....but did you know that Saddam used to kill his own people and point fingers at other countries just to gain more support?
people outside of the US like to just sit there and whine about stuff, but its because of Saddam that Iraq is the way it is now, and his influence over the people just decieves them into believing that whatever he says is the right way. Therefore the deaths on their side is because they are fighting for the beliefs that saddam brainwashed into them, the US isnt purposely killing iraqis

and Vagabond, dont try to be condescending as if you actually know whats good for the world.....im sure if a bunch of foreigners start dissing everyone in your country because your government decided to get involved in global affairs, then you'd be acting the same way we would

edit: ok i didnt realize you were actually in america......i guess i wouldve expected that from someone from another country

It isn't about 'dissing' Americans...it is criticising the American government...and thats a very different thing...I'm anti war (because Iraq posed no threat to the majority of the world and had fuck all to do with 9/11 - the american (and us english who allied with them) government pretty much used 9/11 as an excuse to tie Iraq and Saddam, with the Taliban and Bin Laden (when in fact the two hated each other and were totally against each other)) and my government went into this war supporting the US government (demonstrating IMO that Tony Blair has no spine). "a bunch of foreigners" can diss the UK all they want for all I care because my government don't represent me, and they don't represent the people of the UK, because our so-called left-wing government is just totally up the arse of the American government...

The biggest tragedy in recent American history was dispicably manipulated by those in power as an excuse to go to war with Iraq...yes Saddam Hussein should have been sorted out but it isn't for America just go against what the UN say and just invade because they don't like the politics (even if Hussein was totally dispicable towards his own country). Are they just gonna invade everyone whose politics they don't like? Because there are a shitload of countries who also have appalling human rights...are they all going to be invaded? The government mis-represented information as if it was a bullet proof case to go to war...yet a whole load of the information (at least from what I've seen) was flawed and much of it was very open to interpretation...thus going to war (in the first "pre-emptive" war ever as far as I know) was unjustifiable...

Hussein had no interest in any war against the west, he did unspeakable things to his own people, that isn't in question...but the reasons given by the US and the UK about a pre-emptive war weren't in my opinion justifiable...and to the guy who says its amazing how people act tough behind their computer...this isn't acting tough, it is just an opinion...when the non-existant weapons of mass destruction and the mis-interpreted information from years and years ago about the whole '45 minute' thing (by which time any weapons would no longer be usable anyway as the ones in question had a much shorter shelf life), when the weapons of mass destruction weren't proved...THEN they started changing their reasons for going to war...and now Colin Powell admits that the pre-war intelligence could have been flawed! ( Link )

I'm not against Saddam being punished for his crimes, but I find the idea very scary the amount of manipulation that is resulting from 9/11...and I won't even go into the USA Patriot Act!!! I also won't go into how companies are manipulating this situation to make money (including the first Burger King to be in Baghdad)...

Ah well, politics never go well on this board...I don't know why that is...on another forum I go to political arguments aren't necessarily treated with such apprehension...its quite sad that politics can't be discussed because 'it'll turn ugly'... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

[r3n]

hey i know, lets skip to the end result of this thread:



















the american government doesnt give a shit about anyone but itself! and if you think otherwise.....















you're a moron!