well unless your statementwas just thrown in randomly it would apear to be a swipe taken at the fact that a jounin ANT jounin could defeat itachi. but of course he OWNED kurenai, because she was using a technique he was strong against. where as perhaps if she used someting he was weak against then it may not have been 100% one sided.Look at it this way, ITACHI OWNED KURENAI TO HELL WITHOUT USING STUPID MANGEKYOU
wait a sec, your the exact same person that told me that when it focused on his eyse a few eps ago when he first confronted naruto that it meant nothing!!! double standards this. this is no way on gods green earth you can come to the asumption logically that those black flames were form his sharigan. backing up this theory is the fact jira has never seen them, being from the village himself we would expect him to know about such a technique, considering the fact that konoha seemed so proud of its sharingan eyes. for all intents and purposes it IS just another technique, ok so its a strong one but it has nothing whatsoever to do with the sharingan so far. thats like saying the shadow rep is cos of the fox, its bullshit. but the fact reminas that he can still do it...... sharingan or not it seems to be incredibly powerfull especially beacuse jira had to seal it in a scroll.
Ya Chambers, but you can't assume it isn't from the Sharingan either, during Itachi's battle with kakshi and co on the river it would appear that kakshi was the only one who knew what was comming yet the other two are from the same village.
dude. i don't understand you at all. i'm gonna explain the two different eye focuses. ok when the animators focused on itachi's eyes when naruto opened the door, that was to show that naruto was confused about who it was. they had naruto say 'wtf, he has the same sharingan as sasuke but it's not him' or something like that to make it even more clearer that mangekyou sharingan wasn't used. but when itachi was escaping from the toad's mouth and it focused on his eyes, he clearly used mangekyou sharingan right there. notice how everytime itachi used mangekyou sharingan, they showed that he closed his eyes for a few seconds before and then opened and there was a specific sound effect. from that we know amaterasu is a jutsu performed via mangekyou sharingan. chambers, just trust me.Originally posted by: chambers
wait a sec, your the exact same person that told me that when it focused on his eyse a few eps ago when he first confronted naruto that it meant nothing!!! double standards this. this is no way on gods green earth you can come to the asumption logically that those black flames were form his sharigan. backing up this theory is the fact jira has never seen them, being from the village himself we would expect him to know about such a technique, considering the fact that konoha seemed so proud of its sharingan eyes. for all intents and purposes it IS just another technique, ok so its a strong one but it has nothing whatsoever to do with the sharingan so far. thats like saying the shadow rep is cos of the fox, its bullshit. but the fact reminas that he can still do it...... sharingan or not it seems to be incredibly powerfull especially beacuse jira had to seal it in a scroll.
and someone said that itachi without sharingan would be just a regular guy. well, that's completely unfair. i can say this, gai without his taijutsu abilities would be complete garbage.
wtf are you talking about you stupid little liar, i never said it focused on his eyes for nothing. your always making up shit and putting words into peoples mouths. LOGICALLY, which is an area we know you lack in chambers, the reason they closed in on his eyes would be to show it was a sharingan technique. isnt it possible that Itachi discovered or developed a new technique for his sharingan? or maybe its such a powerful technique not many have seen it.Originally posted by: chambers
wait a sec, your the exact same person that told me that when it focused on his eyse a few eps ago when he first confronted naruto that it meant nothing!!! double standards this. this is no way on gods green earth you can come to the asumption logically that those black flames were form his sharigan. backing up this theory is the fact jira has never seen them, being from the village himself we would expect him to know about such a technique, considering the fact that konoha seemed so proud of its sharingan eyes. for all intents and purposes it IS just another technique, ok so its a strong one but it has nothing whatsoever to do with the sharingan so far. thats like saying the shadow rep is cos of the fox, its bullshit. but the fact reminas that he can still do it...... sharingan or not it seems to be incredibly powerfull especially beacuse jira had to seal it in a scroll.
I think someone mentioned that Itachi is useless without sharingan. So i had to say that he didn't really use mangekyou against kurenai. kurenai is a leaf jounin too. (leaf jounins are strong). believe me itachi willl still own her without sharingan, all he did was counter genjutsu.
just some thoughts:
he countered kurenai's genjutsu after seeing through it with his sharingan... so it doesn't necessarily mean that he can own her without sharingan.... if he couldn't see through the genjutsu then he might not have been able to counter it... he can own her without MANGEKYOU SHARINGAN.. cuz he did... but he used his sharingan as an advantage tos ee through her genjutsu... without sharingan eyes he would be... like kisame... a high S rank individual... which a jounin could put some fight against... though not a definate win for either side.... (Naruto has a lot of underdogs winning over seemingly stronger people)
which leads me to my other thought... if gai isn't affected by the Mangekyou Sharingan.. then he has some type of advantage... if itachi had no sharingan at all... it would be like my example with kurenai.... itachi would just be an S ranked individual like kisame... but without the mangekyou sharingan... he still has his normal see-through-pretty-much-anything sharingan and his S rank ninja skills.... just minus one super strong technique.... gai would still have to deal with all of that giving him less of a chance of winning.... however it doesn't give itachi a sure 100% win... and like i said in Naruto... it seems like the underdog sometimes wins over seemingly stronger opponents... so give gai some credit
as for my thoughts on people focusing on their best technique... well its pretty obvious that itachi has focused on his sharingan techniques... he had to get the stamina to use mangekyou multiple times(like sasuke practices with chidori)... he had to practice to learn the black fire thing(without practicing a jutsu... u can't develop one)... so he must have focused on his sharingan training... that said ... at his age... which is what.... at the most somewhere in his late 20's... it is highly doubtful that he is top ranked (the best) in every single category unless he spent all of his waking hours practicing ninjutsu taijutsu genjutsu and everything... so there IS a possibility that gai's taijutsu and speed could be on par if not better than itachi's...
I honestly didn't read every single comment because that's 11 pages of mostly flames... but I'm not taking any sides... I think that there are a lot of good points made here... itachi is still skilled at a lot of other things so he shouldn't be assumed helpless without sharingan... but without his mangekyou sharingan (which would have given him an automatic win against gai) he does not have a 100% chance of winning... he said himself to not underestimate gai... if he knew he could own him without even trying he wouldn't have said that...
don't forget that itachi is a genius ninja. he wouldn't need to spend much time on his taijutsu training to get the results that would take regular ninjas years to get. much like sasuke and rock lee. rock lee trained for many years to get the speed he can move without his weights where as sasuke reached that in under a month.
no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.Originally posted by: random
just some thoughts:
he countered kurenai's genjutsu after seeing through it with his sharingan... so it doesn't necessarily mean that he can own her without sharingan.... if he couldn't see through the genjutsu then he might not have been able to counter it... he can own her without MANGEKYOU SHARINGAN.. cuz he did... but he used his sharingan as an advantage tos ee through her genjutsu... without sharingan eyes he would be... like kisame... a high S rank individual... which a jounin could put some fight against... though not a definate win for either side.... (Naruto has a lot of underdogs winning over seemingly stronger people)
which leads me to my other thought... if gai isn't affected by the Mangekyou Sharingan.. then he has some type of advantage... if itachi had no sharingan at all... it would be like my example with kurenai.... itachi would just be an S ranked individual like kisame... but without the mangekyou sharingan... he still has his normal see-through-pretty-much-anything sharingan and his S rank ninja skills.... just minus one super strong technique.... gai would still have to deal with all of that giving him less of a chance of winning.... however it doesn't give itachi a sure 100% win... and like i said in Naruto... it seems like the underdog sometimes wins over seemingly stronger opponents... so give gai some credit
as for my thoughts on people focusing on their best technique... well its pretty obvious that itachi has focused on his sharingan techniques... he had to get the stamina to use mangekyou multiple times(like sasuke practices with chidori)... he had to practice to learn the black fire thing(without practicing a jutsu... u can't develop one)... so he must have focused on his sharingan training... that said ... at his age... which is what.... at the most somewhere in his late 20's... it is highly doubtful that he is top ranked (the best) in every single category unless he spent all of his waking hours practicing ninjutsu taijutsu genjutsu and everything... so there IS a possibility that gai's taijutsu and speed could be on par if not better than itachi's...
I honestly didn't read every single comment because that's 11 pages of mostly flames... but I'm not taking any sides... I think that there are a lot of good points made here... itachi is still skilled at a lot of other things so he shouldn't be assumed helpless without sharingan... but without his mangekyou sharingan (which would have given him an automatic win against gai) he does not have a 100% chance of winning... he said himself to not underestimate gai... if he knew he could own him without even trying he wouldn't have said that...
itachi without his sharingan would not just be a regular s-ranked criminal like kisame (side note: just because someone is a s-ranked criminal that doesn't mean they are strong).
if gai isn't affected by mangekyou sharingan, he wouldn't have any advantage. you're saying things as if gai is uneffected by the actual sharingan itself. gai ultimately puts himself at an advantage cuz he can only look at the opponents' feet.
and itachi is 17 years old. and you say that without his mangekyou sharingan, he doesn't have a 100% chance of winning... well, he clearly kicked kurenai's ass without mangekyou sharingan, so what you say doesn't really work. and gai told kisame to not underestimate him. don't get that confused.
s ranked criminal... i meant s ranked in skill....... as in really good with different techniques....... you didn't read what I said .. here let me post the part again
"which leads me to my other thought... if gai isn't affected by the Mangekyou Sharingan.. then he has some type of advantage... if itachi had no sharingan at all... it would be like my example with kurenai.... itachi would just be an S ranked individual like kisame... but without the mangekyou sharingan... he still has his normal see-through-pretty-much-anything sharingan and his S rank ninja skills.... just minus one super strong technique.... gai would still have to deal with all of that giving him less of a chance of winning.... however it doesn't give itachi a sure 100% win... and like i said in Naruto... it seems like the underdog sometimes wins over seemingly stronger opponents... so give gai some credit"
meaning without mangekyou sharingan itachi loses his 100% victory... if you read it i mentioned that he still has his normal sharingan eyes which gai would still have to deal with...... if gai looking at onyl feet was a complete disadvantage he wouldn't even win against kakashi... but he can... because he is skilled with taijutsu and has learned to predict things.... therefore it DOES work
he kicked kurenai's ass because he still has S ranked abilities (as in high level ninja skills) plus kurenai is not a specialist in ninjutsu.. she used a genjutsu which was easily countered by the normal sharingan eyes... what i said makes sense... he DOESN'T have 100% chance winning... that's like saying... he can own anyone on naruto... why would you have a character that can not be defeated by anyone or even matched by anyone... or even have anyone put upa decent fight... that's like saying itachi is god... his mangekyou sharingan is what gives him the sure win.. because nobody (at this point) can counter it... take that away... he just has sharingan which can be dealt with... although with some degree of difficulty... so my point that he does not have a 100% guaranteed win still makes sense... maybe 99% win... maybe even less... maybe even just a "highly likely" but he does NOT have a 100% chance of winning if his mangekyou sharingan is disabled...
ond ok.. itachi is 17 years old... that further supports that he has had far less time in his life to aquire supreme mastery of every technique there is... genius or not... it doesn't put him so far above every character that he can whoop all their asses.... so like i said... gai deserves some credit because he can put some fight against itachi...
edit.... itachi telling kisame not to underestimate gai still shows that itachi thinks highly of gai..... if itachi is telling a criminal with S ranked (high level) techniques to not underestimate a jounin.. then that jounin must be able to put up a fight against someone of that rank... though itachi still has sharingan.. which is difficult to deal with... his level of ninja techniques should be around the same level of kisame maybe a little more.. but still around the same level.... if gai can put a fight up against kisame... he can probably put up a fight against itachi... but itachi's eyes give him more advantage giving gai less of a chance of winning... but it doesn't mean itachi has a definate win.... people slip up... someone can be caught by surprise... etc etc... since gais technique eliminates itachi's only sure fire(as in.... no matter what you do if i use this technique you lose) way of winning... gai prevents him from having 100% victory...
LOL dude... you are SO on so many parts, it's not even funny. i hope someone else can tell you this too. i'll post later.Originally posted by: random
s ranked criminal... i meant s ranked in skill....... as in really good with different techniques....... you didn't read what I said .. here let me post the part again
"which leads me to my other thought... if gai isn't affected by the Mangekyou Sharingan.. then he has some type of advantage... if itachi had no sharingan at all... it would be like my example with kurenai.... itachi would just be an S ranked individual like kisame... but without the mangekyou sharingan... he still has his normal see-through-pretty-much-anything sharingan and his S rank ninja skills.... just minus one super strong technique.... gai would still have to deal with all of that giving him less of a chance of winning.... however it doesn't give itachi a sure 100% win... and like i said in Naruto... it seems like the underdog sometimes wins over seemingly stronger opponents... so give gai some credit"
meaning without mangekyou sharingan itachi loses his 100% victory... if you read it i mentioned that he still has his normal sharingan eyes which gai would still have to deal with...... if gai looking at onyl feet was a complete disadvantage he wouldn't even win against kakashi... but he can... because he is skilled with taijutsu and has learned to predict things.... therefore it DOES work
he kicked kurenai's ass because he still has S ranked abilities (as in high level ninja skills) plus kurenai is not a specialist in ninjutsu.. she used a genjutsu which was easily countered by the normal sharingan eyes... what i said makes sense... he DOESN'T have 100% chance winning... that's like saying... he can own anyone on naruto... why would you have a character that can not be defeated by anyone or even matched by anyone... or even have anyone put upa decent fight... that's like saying itachi is god... his mangekyou sharingan is what gives him the sure win.. because nobody (at this point) can counter it... take that away... he just has sharingan which can be dealt with... although with some degree of difficulty... so my point that he does not have a 100% guaranteed win still makes sense... maybe 99% win... maybe even less... maybe even just a "highly likely" but he does NOT have a 100% chance of winning if his mangekyou sharingan is disabled...
ond ok.. itachi is 17 years old... that further supports that he has had far less time in his life to aquire supreme mastery of every technique there is... genius or not... it doesn't put him so far above every character that he can whoop all their asses.... so like i said... gai deserves some credit because he can put some fight against itachi...
edit.... itachi telling kisame not to underestimate gai still shows that itachi thinks highly of gai..... if itachi is telling a criminal with S ranked (high level) techniques to not underestimate a jounin.. then that jounin must be able to put up a fight against someone of that rank... though itachi still has sharingan.. which is difficult to deal with... his level of ninja techniques should be around the same level of kisame maybe a little more.. but still around the same level.... if gai can put a fight up against kisame... he can probably put up a fight against itachi... but itachi's eyes give him more advantage giving gai less of a chance of winning... but it doesn't mean itachi has a definate win.... people slip up... someone can be caught by surprise... etc etc... since gais technique eliminates itachi's only sure fire(as in.... no matter what you do if i use this technique you lose) way of winning... gai prevents him from having 100% victory...
made my own sharingan.. lol
when itachi said, "I had to use Tsukuyomi, and was even forced to use Amaterasu," wouldnt mentioning both of them like that hint that they both relate to the mangekyou sharingan, an ability that uses alot of chakra? To say "even forced to use Amaterasu," sounds like its a move even more powerful than tsukuyomi. In which case i doubt it would be a jutsu that he could just "copy" off some guy
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
one more flame and the topic is locked..
half of you are talking out of your asses anyways..
for gods sake s-k if you canr argue respectivley iam just going to ignore your arguments 100% form now on. end off.
@ AF i dont thin it neccasarily points to a sharingan related move, although i certianly think its possible, i dont at this point think that the manga shows any hint of it being the same as mankehyou sharingan. especially because jira doesnt know anything about it ( that would be my first big point!)
no.Originally posted by: chambers
for gods sake s-k if you canr argue respectivley iam just going to ignore your arguments 100% form now on. end off.
@ AF i dont thin it neccasarily points to a sharingan related move, although i certianly think its possible, i dont at this point think that the manga shows any hint of it being the same as mankehyou sharingan. especially because jira doesnt know anything about it ( that would be my first big point!)
mangekyou sharingan isn't the genjutsu, it's tsukuyomi. mangekyou sharingan is just like the special sharingan jutsu that only uchihas can do and tsukuyomi is the actual genjutsu itself performed by the mangekyou sharingan. there is theory that each comma represents a super powerful gen/tai/ninjutsu. tsukuyomi is the super strong genjutsu, amaterasu is the ninjutsu, but we haven't seen the taijutsu yet.
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