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[Mut]

Originally posted by: Hakeem_21
Who says he can't grab Naruto whenever he wants? Before Itachi was to tired from using sharingan he said that he wasnt sure to survive if he faught,so whe know he isnt sure if he can beat Jiraya.

Stop confusing yourself. Itachi didn't fight Jiraiya cuz he wasted two mangekyou sharingans before the encounter. God dammit, how many times do I need to say this?

Originally posted by: Augury
From what we've seen of Jiraiya, most of the jutsu's he used aren't "copyable" in the battlefield situation he uses it in. When he encounters Itachi and Kisame, he summon's a frog esophagus. In the Sannin fight, he creates a swamp to sink Orochimaru's lesser snakes. This is pretty smart fighting; the moves he uses aren't counterable by simply copying them.

Stop trying to spread misinformation. It specifically said in the manga, that sharingan can copy, read, and defeat all jutsus except bloodline jutsus.

Itachi's strength? Sure, he's pretty damn strong, but just because he has the mangekyou doesn't mean he's invincible. Itachi says that the only way to counter his mangekyou is by also having a mangekyou, but this refers to a direct counter. An indirect counter such as the one used by Jiraiya can be used too.

??? Which 'indirect counter' did Jiraiya use to fight off Tsukuyomi? Tsukuyomi was never even used on Jiraiya.

[Elessar]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
Stop trying to spread misinformation. It specifically said in the manga, that sharingan can copy, read, and defeat all jutsus except bloodline jutsus.

Unless they go beyond the capabilities of the sharingan user. Copying a summon is no good if you haven't subscribed to the creatures service. The copy will fail or be useless.
Copying some taijutsu is no good if you can't keep the speed. The copy will fail or be useless.
Copying some weird-ass large ninjutsu is no good if you don't have enough chakra. The copy will fail or be useless.

The only thing we've seen from Jiraiya that can be instantaniously copied is his hair-armor and the swamp iirc. Everything else required some sort of training even if you figured out how it works, or a summon-contract. Well, Rasengan could be instant-copy too, depending on your chakra control level.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Elessar

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
Stop trying to spread misinformation. It specifically said in the manga, that sharingan can copy, read, and defeat all jutsus except bloodline jutsus.

Unless they go beyond the capabilities of the sharingan user. Copying a summon is no good if you haven't subscribed to the creatures service. The copy will fail or be useless.
Copying some taijutsu is no good if you can't keep the speed. The copy will fail or be useless.
Copying some weird-ass large ninjutsu is no good if you don't have enough chakra. The copy will fail or be useless.

The only thing we've seen from Jiraiya that can be instantaniously copied is his hair-armor and the swamp iirc. Everything else required some sort of training even if you figured out how it works, or a summon-contract. Well, Rasengan could be instant-copy too, depending on your chakra control level.

Hey, I don't know how the sharingan copying stuff works and neither do you. I'm just going by what the anime said. As far as I'm concerned sharingan can learn every jutsu except the bloodline ones, that's why Orochimaru wants it.

[Elessar]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
Hey, I don't know how the sharingan copying stuff works and neither do you. I'm just going by what the anime said.

So do I. The manga clearly said:

- if you don't have enough chakra for a jutsu, it will fail and you might die.
- you can't summon without a blood-contract
- you have to be physically able to perform copied taijutsu.

I'm just not looking at statements from the manga as isolated as you seem to do when it comes to to Itachi.

[RasenDori]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@

Originally posted by: Elessar

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
Stop trying to spread misinformation. It specifically said in the manga, that sharingan can copy, read, and defeat all jutsus except bloodline jutsus.

Unless they go beyond the capabilities of the sharingan user. Copying a summon is no good if you haven't subscribed to the creatures service. The copy will fail or be useless.
Copying some taijutsu is no good if you can't keep the speed. The copy will fail or be useless.
Copying some weird-ass large ninjutsu is no good if you don't have enough chakra. The copy will fail or be useless.

The only thing we've seen from Jiraiya that can be instantaniously copied is his hair-armor and the swamp iirc. Everything else required some sort of training even if you figured out how it works, or a summon-contract. Well, Rasengan could be instant-copy too, depending on your chakra control level.

Hey, I don't know how the sharingan copying stuff works and neither do you. I'm just going by what the anime said. As far as I'm concerned sharingan can learn every jutsu except the bloodline ones, that's why Orochimaru wants it.

the sharingan magically look at moves and grant its user the ability to use it? if that was the case, then why couldnt a sharingan user copy a blood line ability? from what we have sean the sharingan grants the user the ability to interpret a persons or objects next movement (which is where you get the sharingan controlled shurikens on a string techneque).weve seen sasuke copy movements like lees taijutsu, are to cheat in the examine. weve seen kakashi copy jutsus that used seals to form them, but have we seen anyone copy a jutsu that didnt use hand seals? no. so my anlaysis is that the sharingan copies jutsu by reading the hand seals used to perform them. the sharigan user cannot copy the move if it is something that their bodies arent capiable of doing (i.e. bloodlines are freak experiment induced moves). also when a move is done without seals (rasengan) or shortcut seals (kage bunshin ... this one is my most baseless part of the theory) then the sharingan cant copy it...

by the way... i havent read most of the pages since starting arguing about that akatsukis motives... but... what does the sharingan have to d owith this topic?

[Augury]

Stop trying to spread misinformation. It specifically said in the manga, that sharingan can copy, read, and defeat all jutsus except bloodline jutsus.

I'm not trying to spread misinformation. I put "copyable" in quotes because it's obvious that the sharingan can copy the jutsu. Jiraiya's use of the jutsu makes it so that It's just not useful to copy it. Perhaps "counterable" is a better word to use, but isn't the point of being able to copy a jutsu to counter it? If copying a jutsu is useless as a counter, the copy is pointless unless it's used at a future time. The whole point of my post was to indicate that Jiraiya uses jutsus that aren't counterable by the sharingan in the present battle he uses it in, so therefore defeating Itachi is a possibillity, -- and therefore there may be other ninjas other than Jiraiya with the ability to defeat Itachi as well.

??? Which 'indirect counter' did Jiraiya use to fight off Tsukuyomi? Tsukuyomi was never even used on Jiraiya.

I didn't say that tsukuyomi was used on Jiraiya, or that he actually countered it. I said that he <u>can</u> counter it using a method similar to those that I mentioned above that paragraph.