One Piece Episode 449

[DarthEnderX]

Having ambition isn't the same as being able to concentrate ambition into an attack that negates devils fruit abilities.

Why do you think Haki negates Devil's Fruit abilities? They haven't said anything like that.

The only thing that "negates" fruit abilities is Sea Stone, the Darkness Fruit, and weaknesses of specific fruits to specific materials.

Raleigh's Haki didn't suddenly "negate" any of Kizaru's powers. Kizaru's light sword didn't suddenly vanish when Raleigh made contact with him.

When a Haki attack hits a Logia user, it works, because the fruit makes their body invincible, not their spirit.

In the same vein, if Flamingo used his powers on a Logia user, they would work, because the fruit makes their body invincible, not their mind.

[Sentenal]

Why do you think Haki negates Devil's Fruit abilities? They haven't said anything like that.

The only thing that "negates" fruit abilities is Sea Stone, the Darkness Fruit, and weaknesses of specific fruits to specific materials.

Raleigh's Haki didn't suddenly "negate" any of Kizaru's powers. Kizaru's light sword didn't suddenly vanish when Raleigh made contact with him.

When a Haki attack hits a Logia user, it works, because the fruit makes their body invincible, not their spirit.

In the same vein, if Flamingo used his powers on a Logia user, they would work, because the fruit makes their body invincible, not their mind.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but do you have any idea what Don Flamingo's Devil Fruit power actually is? Since I sure don't know.

Anyway, the mechanics of Haki vs Logia stuff hasn't been explained. Hopefully it will be explained to some extent in the future.

[Kraco]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but do you have any idea what Don Flamingo's Devil Fruit power actually is? Since I sure don't know.

Anyway, the mechanics of Haki vs Logia stuff hasn't been explained. Hopefully it will be explained to some extent in the future.

The couple of times we have seen Flamingo, his power has been to take over somebody's body movements. Some sort of marionette power. I doubt there's much more to it.

We will most likely learn more of Haki when the Straw hats star to learn to use their considerable willpowers. I hope we won't learn anything more before as explanations integrated in the story are much better than external explanations.

[DarthEnderX]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but do you have any idea what Don Flamingo's Devil Fruit power actually is? Since I sure don't know.

I just assumed it was mind control. Though it could be something like invisible strings or bone control or something crazy like that.

[UChessmaster]

I just assumed it was mind control. Though it could be something like invisible strings or bone control or something crazy like that.

If i remember correctly Don Flamingo took control of Bellamy to fight his subordinate, when his subordinate asked him why, he said something along the lines that he can`t control his movements.

[Assertn]

Why do you think Haki negates Devil's Fruit abilities? They haven't said anything like that.

The only thing that "negates" fruit abilities is Sea Stone, the Darkness Fruit, and weaknesses of specific fruits to specific materials.

Raleigh's Haki didn't suddenly "negate" any of Kizaru's powers. Kizaru's light sword didn't suddenly vanish when Raleigh made contact with him.

When a Haki attack hits a Logia user, it works, because the fruit makes their body invincible, not their spirit.

In the same vein, if Flamingo used his powers on a Logia user, they would work, because the fruit makes their body invincible, not their mind.

So the cut on Kizaru's cheek was from Raleigh cutting his spirit, then?
You're totally pulling that presumption out of your ass. When Sentoumaru used a haki punch on Luffy, he reacted the same way as when Blackbeard vortex punched Luffy. Both times he observed the pain of the impact as if he suddenly lost his rubberness.

Another comparison: You point out that Raleigh's sword did not dissolve Kizaru's light sword, however just the same, Blackbeard's darkness didn't dissolve Ace's fireballs.

I'm yet to see an example where darkness or kairoseki clearly affects an opponent differently than haki.

[DarthEnderX]

Blackbeard's darkness only works when he's touching you. And he specifically says it doesn't negate attacks, it absorbs them and he takes the damage. Why would it work on Ace's fireballs? Even if he grabs Ace, the fireballs just become normal fire, they don't vanish.

But I haven't seen a single instance of Haki being used to negate a Devil's fruit power other than someone's invulnerability. So I find it more likely that Haki can penetrate invulnerability rather than negate Fruit powers. I don't see anyone using Haki to turn a Zoan back into a human or to negate any other Paramecia powers. It's only allowed attack that the target should have been immune to work.

[Sentenal]

Blackbeard's darkness only works when he's touching you. And he specifically says it doesn't negate attacks, it absorbs them and he takes the damage. Why would it work on Ace's fireballs? Even if he grabs Ace, the fireballs just become normal fire, they don't vanish.

But I haven't seen a single instance of Haki being used to negate a Devil's fruit power other than someone's invulnerability. So I find it more likely that Haki can penetrate invulnerability rather than negate Fruit powers. I don't see anyone using Haki to turn a Zoan back into a human or to negate any other Paramecia powers. It's only allowed attack that the target should have been immune to work.

Haki apparently nullified Luffy being Rubber, which is his power.

[DarthEnderX]

Haki apparently nullified Luffy being Rubber, which is his power.

I don't know why people seem to be jumping to that conclusion. Somebody hit Luffy with Haki and he got hurt.

Why do people automatically assume that he became not-rubber all of a sudden instead of simply that he was hurt despite the fact that he was rubber?

When he was fighting Blackbeard it was obvious. He was in second gear and you could see the color and the steam fade as soon as Blackbeard grabbed him, and you could see second gear return soon after Blackbeard let him go.

Against Sentomaru, Luffy is bouncing around and Sentomaru hits him, and it hurts him. But I don't see any evidence that he became not-rubber when he was hit.

[Sentenal]

I don't know why people seem to be jumping to that conclusion. Somebody hit Luffy with Haki and he got hurt.

Why do people automatically assume that he became not-rubber all of a sudden instead of simply that he was hurt despite the fact that he was rubber?

When he was fighting Blackbeard it was obvious. He was in second gear and you could see the color and the steam fade as soon as Blackbeard grabbed him, and you could see second gear return soon after Blackbeard let him go.

Against Sentomaru, Luffy is bouncing around and Sentomaru hits him, and it hurts him. But I don't see any evidence that he became not-rubber when he was hit.

Except Luffy gives the exact same reaction in both cases? What about when Garp hit him in Water 7? Luffy's ability to be rubber should make him not feel pain from getting bludgeoned, but he still felt pain in all those instances.

[DarthEnderX]

Why would Luffy's reaction be different in either instance?

Regardless of whether a Haki punch negated his fruit powers and made him feel the punch or the Haki punch hurts someone even if they would normally be unaffected by it, the end result for Luffy is the same.