Beating Children/Spanking

[KrayZ33]

And if it doesn't hurt, then they won't learn a lesson from it, then it's pointless.

and that is wrong.

[Animeniax]

and that is wrong.

Pain is the human experience that teaches us not to do something. If you skated without protective equipment on and broke your arm, but it didn't hurt to break your arm, what would prevent you from doing the same dumb thing? Spanking a child is application of a basic truth about human physiology and behavioral learning.

Children do not have the same cognitive abilities as adults. Thus, a child will take a beating less appropriately than an adult would - after all, an adult will listen to "reason" about how the abuse was justified. Children of course take entirely the wrong lessons from virtually everything, and it's not as though hitting a child to correct their behavior is actually rationally justified.

A simple example, again:

Yes, exactly. Once you beat your child and then demonstrate a causal relationship between the beating and the negative behavior the child exhibited, the behavior is instantly corrected. My goodness you are a fucking idiot.

Not sure what kinds of adults you deal with or if you're spewing from some college textbook (probably citing wikipedia) but adults don't listen to reason, especially when confronted with violence. They may adjust their view temporarily to avoid physical pain. Children aren't quite as capable at learning to exploit this relationship, so bad act = pain works with them where reasoning does not.

We should be glad you're into same sex so you don't procreate and we have another shitty undisciplined brat yelling in the movie theatre or running amok at the grocery store. Though you could always adopt I guess.

[Y]

Spanking a child is application of a basic truth about human physiology and behavioral learning.

What we have here in actuality is an application of the basic truth that your posts on any given subject are as wrong as they can possibly be. You should post about lottery numbers and see if anyone on here can devise a system that lets them win every time. Just a brief tour around the child psychology field pretty much routs your argument that this is just a "basic truth".

Source

... Gershoff found "strong associations" between corporal punishment and all eleven child behaviors and experiences. Ten of the associations were negative such as with increased child aggression and antisocial behavior. The single desirable association was between corporal punishment and increased immediate compliance on the part of the child.

The two largest effect sizes (strongest associations) were immediate compliance by the child and physical abuse of the child by the parent. Gershoff believes that these two strongest associations model the complexity of the debate around corporal punishment...

Note the sad dithering by the author of the press release to qualify her findings.

Source

...There has been a large amount of research, much of it of high quality, showing that [corporal punishment] is a risk factor for many social and psychological problems...

... Without exception, these 20 studies revealed that CP was associated with an increased probability of mental health problems. Thirteen studies investigated delinquent behavior. It is widely believed that CP “teaches the child a lesson” and therefore reduces delinquency. Instead, in 12 of the 13 studies CP was found to be associated with a higher probability of delinquent and anti-social behavior. The same near unanimity (4 out of 5) was found for studies of the relation between experiencing CP as a child and later adult criminal behavior...

Emphasis mine in all cases.

The facts are unanimous in their rejection of your "basic truth" and "common sense" approach to child rearing, which I pray you have never employed in any real world scenarios. I would assemble an absolute juggernaut of a post attempting to get the studies mentioned off of a public portal and cite them individually if I had any suspicion that your posts in this thread are arguments in good faith. Considering your fucking dreadful post history it's more likely you are supporting corporal punishment because you have an unsustainable desire to pour shit over every thread posted on Gotwoot.

We should be glad you're into same sex so you don't procreate and we have another shitty undisciplined brat yelling in the movie theatre or running amok at the grocery store. Though you could always adopt I guess.

Just a note: Kagemane_no_Jutsu at least had a mild concussion to blame for his bigoted ramblings in the flame pit. I have absolutely no problems with you flaming the quality of my posts, but bringing the quality of my flaming into it, so to speak, is hilariously over the top even for you.

EDIT:

It's been a long time. I shouldn't have left you.

The current discussion includes how corporal punishment should be defined, how corporal punishment can be distinguished from physical abuse, and whether established associations with child behaviors are best thought of as parent- or child-driven effects. In light of their comments, Gershoff herein revises the process-context model, revisits the issue of whether current knowledge is sufficient to condemn the use of parental corporal punishment, and concludes that lack of demonstrated positive effects and the potential links to physical abuse argue for discouraging corporal punishment in favor of alternative methods of discipline.

... Second, in contrast to other discipline behaviors, there is a large body of high-quality and
well-controlled research showing adverse mental health effects of CP, including prospective
studies, This enables evaluation of this mode of discipline to be evidence-based.
Third, a focus on CP is necessitated by the public health principle that removing a risk
factor with a small effect size. but which is broadly prevalent (such as CP), can result in a
much larger reduction in illness rates than removing a risk factor such as physical abuse,
which has more damaging etfects on individuals, but occurs relatively rarely (Rose, 1985),
Fourth, is the cultural myth that CP is 'sometimes necessary'. This is based on the belief
that CP is effective when other methods have failed. We label this as a myth because research
shows that, although CP is effective in stopping misbehavior in the immediate situation,
these studies also show that it is not more effective than other modes of discipline, even
in the immediate situation.

A PowerPoint presentation of findings regarding sexual misbehaviors and corporal punishment.

I'm not even going to cite any particular passage from the last one. The title pretty much gives it away. Someone should teach this guy about spoiler rules. It's gripping reading if you (I use the general "you" here, as it does not apply to Animeniax) have any sincere interest in the subject.

I didn't use Wikipedia, Animeniax, I used Google and the certain knowledge that it would be effortless to find specific, numerous, professionally damning passages to smack you in the face. I have only a brief knowledge of the subject myself, having browsed SA threads on corporal punishment when LF was still active, and never having delved too deeply into the subject I cannot quote chapter and verse from publications about child psychology like you can. Oh, wait. You just pulled all your opinions from the same place your posts normally originate. You said that your ideas about child rearing are a "basic truth" of child psychology when virtually the entire field is arrayed against you. Even the dissonant studies that do not agree with my perspective are merely inconclusive instead of contradictory. But don't worry. I'm sure your real world, no-nonsense approach won't be deterred by things like mountains of real-world evidence or logical arguments that you barely even read in your rush to shitpost about absolutely everything.

[XanBcoo]

We should be glad you're into same sex so you don't procreate and we have another shitty undisciplined brat yelling in the movie theatre or running amok at the grocery store. Though you could always adopt I guess.

I work with shitty, undisciplined brats who are beaten by their parents on a day to day basis and everything you've said is dismissive, unsupported by even the weakest anecdotal evidence, and almost completely wrong.

Stop being a shit head. There is no definitive way to "discipline" a person and smacking the fuck out of a small child does not teach them to avoid any sort of behavior that they won't repeat again.

You did, however, touch on the more important point that it's far more important to establish a positive relationship with a child before any sort of discipline takes place.

[Animeniax]

I work with shitty, undisciplined brats who are beaten by their parents on a day to day basis and everything you've said is dismissive, unsupported by even the weakest anecdotal evidence, and almost completely wrong.

Stop being a shit head. There is no definitive way to "discipline" a person and smacking the fuck out of a small child does not teach them to avoid any sort of behavior that they won't repeat again.

You did, however, touch on the more important point that it's far more important to establish a positive relationship with a child before any sort of discipline takes place.

When did spanking become synonymous with "beating" and "smacking the fuck out of" your kid?