Naruto Chapter 597

[DB_Hunter]

If it's Izuna then he would know about Kakashi. Obito doesn't make sense, he saw Kakashi as a friend and his last 'dying' act was to give Kakashi his Sharingan as a token of their friendship and his desire to be helpful. To think that would turn in to such bitterness which would involve Obito going under cover, bringing together the world's worst/most powerful ninjas and obtain control of the Kyuubi due to some irrational childish angst seems unrealistic.

With regards to Naruto's powerup, I don't see how it is remotely useful given Kakashi is the one who holds the key to defeating Taobi with Kamui. With Kamui, a simple kunai would be enough to kill Tobi let alone an uber Kyuubi powered up Naruto.

[UChessmaster]

If it's Izuna then he would know about Kakashi. Obito doesn't make sense, he saw Kakashi as a friend and his last 'dying' act was to give Kakashi his Sharingan as a token of their friendship and his desire to be helpful. To think that would turn in to such bitterness which would involve Obito going under cover, bringing together the world's worst/most powerful ninjas and obtain control of the Kyuubi due to some irrational childish angst seems unrealistic.

There can be about 127381310 events that could have happened AFTER his "death" that changed his views on life.

[Y]

If it's Izuna then he would know about Kakashi.

Izuna Uchiha died decades before Kakashi's father was born.

Obito doesn't make sense, he saw Kakashi as a friend and his last 'dying' act was to give Kakashi his Sharingan as a token of their friendship and his desire to be helpful. To think that would turn in to such bitterness which would involve Obito going under cover, bringing together the world's worst/most powerful ninjas and obtain control of the Kyuubi due to some irrational childish angst seems unrealistic.

Try reading the chapter. He feels that Kakashi broke his dying promise to him by failing to protect Rin.

[DB_Hunter]

Izuna Uchiha died decades before Kakashi's father was born.

We've just had people who died decades ago brought back to life, I would think a bit of BS in Tobi's story and an extended life is within the realms of possibility.

Try reading the chapter. He feels that Kakashi broke his dying promise to him by failing to protect Rin.

We don't know what happened to Rin. We don't even see the Rin's name mentioned in this chapter. We see Kakashi standing in a cemetary, where he could be mourning Obito, Rin, or any other fellow ninja who may have died on a mission with him. Try reading the same chapter as everyone else.

[joker-kun]

You two obviously just solved it. Tobi = Rin with Obito's eye.

[Y]

We've just had people who died decades ago brought back to life, I would think a bit of BS in Tobi's story and an extended life is within the realms of possibility.

You said if it was Izuna Uchiha, he *would* know about Kakashi. But the only character who would know about Kakashi's broken promise is Obito. Kakashi didn't tell Izuna Uchiha about his broken promises offscreen. Tobi isn't speaking generally, as though his words have no personal meaning to Kakashi and he is just shittalking ninjas in general.

We don't know what happened to Rin. We don't even see the Rin's name mentioned in this chapter. We see Kakashi standing in a cemetary, where he could be mourning Obito, Rin, or any other fellow ninja who may have died on a mission with him. Try reading the same chapter as everyone else.

There is only one broken promise Kakashi made to a character in this manga that Tobi could be referencing - his failure to protect his comrades. It isn't a reference to fucking nothing. And it's personal. To be fair, this only rules out everyone except Obito and Rin, but although I haven't watched the Naruto anime I'm confident Tobi has a man's voice, so the hilarious possibility that it's Rin mad over Obito's death and put on the Tobi mask is pretty unlikely unless she grew a penis.

[DB_Hunter]

You said if it was Izuna Uchiha, he *would* know about Kakashi. But the only character who would know about Kakashi's broken promise is Obito. Kakashi didn't tell Izuna Uchiha about his broken promises offscreen.

Yes that's true. I'm assuming if it is Izuna he would have been skulking around in the shadows at the Kannabi bridge, much like how he controlled the Mizukage, to watch the fight. Why would he do this? I don't think Kakashi or Obito/Obito's eye would be important enough to drag someone like Izuna out there. If he was there he would most likely have been gathering intel on Minato as he developed his plan to take control of the Kyuubi from Kushina. Getting Obito's eye could have just been a bonus.

There is only one broken promise Kakashi made to a character in this manga that Tobi could be referencing - his failure to protect his comrades. It isn't a reference to fucking nothing. And it's personal. To be fair, this only rules out everyone except Obito and Rin, but although I haven't watched the Naruto anime I'm confident Tobi has a man's voice, so the hilarious possibility that it's Rin mad over Obito's death and put on the Tobi mask is pretty unlikely unless she grew a penis.

Kakashi changed right after Obito's death. Unless Rin died the very instant Obito did without 'new' Kakashi having the chance to save her from any potential danger, Kakashi would have done his utmost to protect her even it cost him his life. He already gave up his life in the fight against Pein just to zap a nail away from Chouji, there is no way he would not have gone all out to save Rin. So it can't be due to a Rin related grudge. I don't think its Rin, as when we see part of Tobi's face when both with Sasuke in the cave and with Konan during the fight he is a wrinkled man.

It can't be Obito as someone posted a while ago it would be stupid that he managed to recover from his crushing injuries, develop the eye warping technique, obtain knowledge about Kyuubi and the weakest point of a Jinchuuriki's seal and be able to go toe-to-toe with Minato in such a short space of time between the fight at Kannabi bridge and Naruto's birth. Tobi being Obito also doesn't explain how Madara seems to be aware of him.

I'm sticking with Izuna, even though it isn't certain, as I think the eye technique related thing was Izuna harvesting eyes as his own got taken by Madara.

[darkshadow]

Kakashi changed right after Obito's death. Unless Rin died the very instant Obito did without 'new' Kakashi having the chance to save her from any potential danger, Kakashi would have done his utmost to protect her even it cost him his life.

This is true, in fact right after obito died rin and kakashi were ambushed and he told her to run; if minato didn't save them, kakashi would have died protecting her.

[Y]

That's the thing though. Obito was no longer around in person to see how his death had affected Kakashi. He was only seeing things from the outside looking in. He doesn't know, or care, that Kakashi's been friendship no jutsu'd to hell and back by now. All he knows is that Kakashi promised him to save Rin and then ended up crying by her grave. Tobi is trying to create a world where that will never happen again (again, it's very bizarre for Izuna Uchiha, the future time traveling Sasuke, or whatever, to have such a personal interest in making sure Kakashi doesn't have to apologize to graves anymore).

In addition, just think about it for a second in a meta context. Why are Kakashi and Gai here? Kakashi and Gai are like ants in this battle. Kakashi has the dimension attack but he is just about out of juice, and this is a singularly inappropriate fight for Gai considering he can do sweet fuck all. Why did the author bring them here? So they can identify who Tobi is when he takes his mask off. Aside from the absolutely, mindbendingly retarded possibility of Future Sasuke, there's no one behind the mask that Naruto would know, so Kakashi and Gai are there to identify who he is for Naruto, and thus the reader. Now ask yourself this - if it's Izuna Uchiha, how are they going to do that? They have no idea what he looks like. In fact, why would he be wearing a mask? The only reason people know what Madara looks like is because there is a colossal statue of him somewhere. There's no reason for Izuna to hide his face. If it's a Zetsu clone of Madara's chakra or some shit, no one knows what that looks like. So whose face will Kakashi and Gai identify behind the mask? Well, maybe just Kakashi if they wanna play Gai for laughs one more time.

This is true, in fact right after obito died rin and kakashi were ambushed and he told her to run; if minato didn't save them, kakashi would have died protecting her.

Everything is answered by our boy Tobi: "You who are capable of nothing more than unfulfilled promises no longer has any worth or value! Even if you have regrets, it is too late! Reality will continue to callously march forward! You who have always been pragmatic and practical should understand. No promises or hopes will ever come true in this world!"

The promise isn't enough. Changing isn't enough. Regretting your losses isn't enough. As he says, a pragmatic person should understand: people are dead, no matter how noble Kakashi's soul is now or whatever. Reality trumps his convictions, which is why Tobi wants to get rid of reality.

EDIT:

Like I said in IRC this is like when people refused to believe Itachi was a good guy. See, there are huge holes in this theory, because we know Itachi is a mass murderer! What do you mean that's going to be explained after the fact, I'm too dumb to understand the writing of a children's comic book!