Yeah, right. So, it's automatically a plothole if it wasn't explained in painstaking detail? Maybe in a shounen show every single thing needs to be explained, just like in a fight the participants explain their every move beforehand and afterwards, but even so it might be just bad shounen writing, not a plothole.
Ok, yes, something unexplained and unaccounted for in the plot exists given what we know about it. The key here is that there are a number of easily conceivable and acceptable explanations for that plot hole. You don't have to dig deep, stretch far, etc. to come up with something to fill the hole. This basically means that is not terrible writing. The things we use to fill the hole are fan-fiction? Ok, so what? These fanfics arose from someone pointing out the plot hole, which we then filled with reasonable explanations.
As far as the fortune is concerned and him being able to hand it over, just think about what would happen if Kurapica got to use the judgement chain on Hisoka, and Hisoka was a real, loyal spider. There are any number of reasons Kurapica might want to keep Hisoka alive, one of which is to continue gaining information from him. However, he doesn't want his identity revealed in case their relationship is discovered by the spiders. So Kurapica places a restriction on him: "Don't allow any information you have discovered about me at this meeting, or will discover about me in future meetings to become known by the spiders." At which point, Hisoka would object, saying that should he be discovered, he's dead anyway if he can't say anything, there's no way he's beating all those monsters. So Kurapica modifies the restriction: "they are allowed to know that there is a restriction upon you preventing you from divulging the information they seek."
This would allow him to hand over the version of the fortune he handed over, answer chrollo in the manner he answered, and yet not allow him to let Pakunoda read his mind. Is this fan-fiction? Sure. Is it unreasonable? I don't think so, at least. And there are probably a number of other explanations the author could easily have fit in there if he was so inclined. It's not necessary though. The deception Hisoka weaved was solid enough to withstand the situation it was designed to.
"You are not free whose liberty is won by the rigour of other, more righteous souls. Your are merely protected. Your freedom is parasitic, you suck the honourable man dry and offer nothing in return. You who have enjoyed freedom, who have done nothing to earn it, your time has come. This time you will stand alone and fight for yourselves. Now you will pay for your freedom in the currency of honest toil and human blood."
- Inquisitor Czevak
It's a plothole if there is a gap in the logic of something and there are characters present that have been established as clever geniuses and they don't notice said gap.Originally Posted by Kraco
The fact that there is an inconsistency in Hisoka's story is not a plot-hole. After all, his story is fabricated. The fact that there's a way to test it and neither Chrollo nor anyone else present thinks of it, given the intelligence that has been attributed to some of those characters, is one.
That would be all well and good, IF someone present had at least thought to bring up the obvious solution, and Hisoka had similarly refused.
But the fact that it wasn't brought up implies that either the writer himself didn't think of it, or he couldn't think of an excuse to get around it, so he simply didn't bring it up and hoped no one would notice.
Clearly it wasn't if several members of this board noticed it immediately and we're probably not nearly as intelligent as the writer wants us to believe Chrollo and some of the other spiders are.
Last edited by DarthEnderX; Wed, 11-14-2012 at 11:22 PM.
Again, Hisoka mentioned that Pakunoda's powers were revealed to the chain user. Given Chrollo's analysis of Hisoka's answers and the fortune, he probably figured that the chain user used the information Hisoka gave up in order to craft a proper restriction that would account for Paku's mind reading abilities. If a reasonable restriction is given by the anime, or is crafted as "fan-fic" then, a leap of logic is not required to understand why it would be reasonable for Chrollo not to bring up Paku's mind reading abilities. Same goes for all of the spiders. In fact, I think it would be more reasonable for someone with an emotional motivation to request that Paku use her abilities. Admittedly, I didn't think about it until I saw someone post of it here, but before I was done logging in to respond, I already had a handful of reasons as to how this scenario could reasonably exist. They flow naturally given what we know about the world, the characters, and the lie.
It's a possibility that the writer himself did not, or could not think of an excuse to get around it, but it is not a necessary implication. For one, there are a bunch of possible explanations on this thread alone from people who haven't thought as deeply about the series as you would expect the writer of the series would. It is annoying to always have everything explained in exhaustive detail, particularly when unnecessary. It would be unnecessary here considering there is no leap of logic, and the exposition would be done to account for something that's a fabrication in the universe to begin with. Finally, considering the quality of Togashi's previous work along with his work in hxh up to this point (and beyond if you're privy to it), I don't see what is accounting for the difficulty here in giving him the benefit of the doubt.
I kind of see your point, but again, excessive exposition gets to be a pain in the ass. Avoid it where you can. To me, this seems like a prime place to avoid it because 1) the situation is a fabrication, and 2) the explanation for it is easily contrived.
Like I said, I didn't notice it, but once it was brought to my attention, it took no time to figure out why it wasn't much of an issue. It doesn't take a genius for that. It's not unreasonable to think Chrollo the genius noticed it, and that Chrollo came to some conclusion as to why it was accounted for (i.e. the chain user knows of Pakunoda's powers).
"You are not free whose liberty is won by the rigour of other, more righteous souls. Your are merely protected. Your freedom is parasitic, you suck the honourable man dry and offer nothing in return. You who have enjoyed freedom, who have done nothing to earn it, your time has come. This time you will stand alone and fight for yourselves. Now you will pay for your freedom in the currency of honest toil and human blood."
- Inquisitor Czevak
My interpretation of events is not fan fic. Here, read the manga carefully until you realize your mistake:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/hunte...12/c105/8.html
"After all, I am strangely colored."
No thanks. If the anime is different from the manga it's not "my mistake". It's the anime's mistake.
I can only draw conclusions based on the information that's presented to me. If the manga is different, that's not my problem.
Unless it's just the translation that's wrong.
Last edited by DarthEnderX; Thu, 11-15-2012 at 10:41 PM.
Such mentality is half of the problem. Maybe it won't take away much when watching archetype shounen like HxH, but with even a bit more complicated stories you have to draw conclusions based also on what is not presented directly, without crying foul the first moment you thought something unexplained happened. It's not like some committee was supervising that every detail must be explained even in shounen, it just normally happens to be so (for ill effects).
So, in short, the manga didn't really add anything essential that couldn't have been derived from the anime as well. Plus the anime had better translations.
The manga is certainly more complete in its details, but I don't see what the is lacking at all in order to come to a conclusion on this.
"You are not free whose liberty is won by the rigour of other, more righteous souls. Your are merely protected. Your freedom is parasitic, you suck the honourable man dry and offer nothing in return. You who have enjoyed freedom, who have done nothing to earn it, your time has come. This time you will stand alone and fight for yourselves. Now you will pay for your freedom in the currency of honest toil and human blood."
- Inquisitor Czevak
I really don't, because it's STILL a plot-hole.
Yes, you can come up with a bunch of reasons for it yourself to explain it. But when the medium itself doesn't provide a logical explanation, it's still technically a plot-hole.
And just because there is a plot-hole doesn't mean the whole thing is ruined. It just means that a thing happened without a logical reason.
All I said was, this is a plot hole. And by the definition of plot hole, it is.
The end.
It's not a plot hole. The medium doesn't have to provide a "logical explanation". Although possible explanations are there if one cares to look hard enough.
Once again, "plot hole": the most overused and misused term in entertainment.
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