Dragon Ball Super

[DarthEnderX]

Huh...I really thought Super Saiyan just completely overwrote Kaioken. It makes no sense that Goku wouldn't have used it before now if that wasn't the case. I mean, yeah, they said it damages his body. But he's been in quite a few situations where Earth or the entire galaxy have been at stake should he lose. And he's always just scraped by, when he apparently could have just Kaiokenned instead.

That said, the episode was still awesome and Hit is the goddamn coolest.

Yup. It's a tournament with fighters (variations on the originals, mainly) from different universes... I wonder where Toriyama got the idea?

Himself decades ago?

This is functionally the same as the Other World Tournament. Escalating it to "universes" is a meaningless distinction, because they're all still just aliens.

He completely stole it and made it worse.

That accusation ignores the fact that it was the obvious choice in the first place. When your main character is the strongest character in the universe, the next logical step is other universes.

It's like a fanfic creating a Super Saiyan 5, and then accusing him of stealing the idea later if he adds a Super Saiyan 5.

[Janice]

Huh...I really thought Super Saiyan just completely overwrote Kaioken. It makes no sense that Goku wouldn't have used it before now if that wasn't the case. I mean, yeah, they said it damages his body. But he's been in quite a few situations where Earth or the entire galaxy have been at stake should he lose. And he's always just scraped by, when he apparently could have just Kaiokenned instead.

That said, the episode was still awesome and Hit is the goddamn coolest.

Himself decades ago?

This is functionally the same as the Other World Tournament. Escalating it to "universes" is a meaningless distinction, because they're all still just aliens.

That accusation ignores the fact that it was the obvious choice in the first place. When your main character is the strongest character in the universe, the next logical step is other universes.

It's like a fanfic creating a Super Saiyan 5, and then accusing him of stealing the idea later if he adds a Super Saiyan 5.

No, it's not the "obvious" direction of the story. If he had any creativity left in his body, there are literally an infinite number of other ways the story could progress. The first mention of another universe was in BoTG, and the Other World is not really the same thing here. Your argument is that he had this idea in his pocket for the past 20 years, and coincidentally a group of fans had the exact same idea, and then he decided to use his idea shortly after they released DBM because why not? Sure, it's possible, and has happened before (Calculus, electricity, etc...) but very unlikely in this scenario. It would be blatant plagiarism if not for copyright laws and what not.

[DarthEnderX]

No, it's not the "obvious" direction of the story. If he had any creativity left in his body, there are literally an infinite number of other ways the story could progress.

But, that's exactly why it's the obvious direction, because it DOESN'T require creativity.

I'm sorry, but other universes is not a novel concept to anyone who's ever read a fucking superhero comic book before.

I mean, shit, other universes was literally the first thing I thought of when DBZ ended. And I'm not even trying to think up new arcs.

I'm sure this fan manga is well written and all, but if you think that concept was super unique and creative, you're fooling yourself.

I honestly try to come up with a different direction, but I´m drawing a blank here.

The only other thing that immediately springs to mind is time travel, which the already did with Cell, but it's very limited, only a few decades.

I could see a story where they have to travel centuries or millennia into the future, and now lots of people are as strong as the main characters, because people have just gotten stronger over time.

Anyway, I struggle to see what could happen after this tournament. Goku is already the strongest mortal in two universes, assuming he beats Hit. Is he just going to hop from universe to universe defeating that universe's strongest enemies?

I can't think of any other reason Toriyama would have there be exactly 12 universes if he didn't intend to do exactly that.

Hopefully, they at least come up with better REASONS for Goku to be fighting other universes, but I don't doubt that that's what he'll be doing.

[ForteCross]

Huh...I really thought Super Saiyan just completely overwrote Kaioken. It makes no sense that Goku wouldn't have used it before now if that wasn't the case. I mean, yeah, they said it damages his body. But he's been in quite a few situations where Earth or the entire galaxy have been at stake should he lose. And he's always just scraped by, when he apparently could have just Kaiokenned instead.

i cant remember from where i read this, but the kaioken is a power up coming from a pure and calm soul while the SSJ is a powerup coming from rage.

SSJ is stronger than kaioken and because they are both opposites they could not be combined.

from what i understood the SSJB is essentially a calm saiyan going SSJ while controlling his ki perfectly, thus giving goku the option to actually combine 2 power ups that come from the same source