Rape and morality in popular media

[shinta|hikari]

I totally agree with your view of how the word feminism is now perceived and how that came to be, which was why I asked why you even want to be associated to it, when you can just call yourself (gender) egalitarian and people would understand you without all the added baggage.

As for existing sexism, it is more prevalent in some industries but not in others. In my personal experience in IT, I've never seen females treated less than males, but maybe that's owed to the sheer diversity of the people working there. That said, I've heard about it happening from people I know, and statistics about it shouldn't be hard to find online.

I do sort of agree with your view that assertiveness plays a factor, and also do think women are less assertive than men in general just from my experience, but that's also because they are playing into the gender expectations for them which are so ingrained into society and people's minds. That's actually one of the things legit feminists fight against, the antiquated perceptions of femininity, such as being modest and quiet.

[Buffalobiian]

I do sort of agree with your view that assertiveness plays a factor, and also do think women are less assertive than men in general just from my experience, but that's also because they are playing into the gender expectations for them which are so ingrained into society and people's minds. That's actually one of the things legit feminists fight against, the antiquated perceptions of femininity, such as being modest and quiet.

I wonder about that. (edit: that may be true.. but in the same way that one believes "I'll be happier if I'm nicer to people".)

I'll include here the (hilariously frustrating) interview between Jordan Peterson and Cathy Newman here addressing this (wage gap discussion happens around 5mins in):



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The following 3hr video is tangential to the above discussion (in that it's related to morality and social structures), but it's one of the rarer interviews where an interviewer is interested in Peterson's views and not in simply challenging them. (Dr Oz, surprisingly enough). It's also the best one.

[KrayZ33]

I'll include here the (hilariously frustrating) interview between Jordan Peterson and Cathy Newman here addressing this (wage gap discussion happens around 5mins in):

*gasgpiabspgasgsga* - this is frustrating!!! That woman puts so much shit into his mouth, it's unbelievable. And she is also a little bit dense.

That whole gender-pay-gap discussion doesn't make sense anyway. The easiest argument would be that companies would never pay more than necessary if they get the same work and traits for less. Capitalism doesn't care about gender, it's all about the money.

It's even easier to see in physical jobs like consturction or logistics... women are required to carry/lift less, *by law*, so they are basically doing a different job by "design" even though it's in the same "category" when you look at the pay.
So why wouldn't someone demand more money, or why wouldn't be a boss willing to pay more, when he gets more/something different/something he needs that he can't get out of the other sex.

[Kraco]

That whole gender-pay-gap discussion doesn't make sense anyway. The easiest argument would be that companies would never pay more than necessary if they get the same work and traits for less. Capitalism doesn't care about gender, it's all about the money.

I used that "companies never pay more than necessary" as a counter-argument in high school when a female student gave a presentation about equality and the gender gap. Somehow my argument wasn't too well received, no matter how neutrally I put it. Already back then there were people who couldn't handle any feedback that didn't directly support their simplistic views.

Still, like I said in my earlier post, the pay gap is easier to solve when the job title is same, and a lot has been solved already there. However, it's not so easy when you look at the average salary of all the women and men in the whole working population of the country. Then it's usually more evident that men are more often in better paying jobs, women in jobs with a lower salary, or men earn more due to different kinds of extras, like working more overtime. At least over here, but the situation could be totally different in other countries. This is quite an ambiguous issue. In the first place it's difficult to see what should be done about it, how, and where exactly. It would be impossible to have every profession have even roughly 50% men, 50% women, and then even all the variables, like women staying longer at home to look after small children.

[Kraco]

I do sort of agree with your view that assertiveness plays a factor, and also do think women are less assertive than men in general just from my experience, but that's also because they are playing into the gender expectations for them which are so ingrained into society and people's minds. That's actually one of the things legit feminists fight against, the antiquated perceptions of femininity, such as being modest and quiet.

Sounds to me like evolution and testosterone would affect that assertiveness as well. If that's the case, women can't really do anything about it (hopefully, lest they cease being women), so the world should develop to cope with it.